CONO flag stops

[Pastor Dave]

I've been reviewing some timetables planning a future trip. I noticed that on the CONO almost half the stations are listed as flag stops. Is there a reason that this route has so many compared to others?

 

[jimhudson]

Pretty poor and isolated part of the country, not much ridership I would think, Ive only seen the train full from CHI or the NOL end, lots of Memphis traffic also, Jay hadley might have more info on this!

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I am not sure. But keep in mind that much of what Amtrak has in the way of routes,stations etc ws inherited from the passenger/freight railroads. So the reasons for many of the things you see probably date way back to them.

 

[Steve4031]

Some were more recent. I assume cost cutting. Kankakee, Rantoul, effingham are all stops that became flag stops more recently like in the last 5 years or so.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I would like some new flag stops added to allow me to catch the train on the outskirts of large cities instead of having to always head downtown. The long and slow entry into San Antonio is like molasses. Having a stop on the outskirts would allow for economical parking and quick dis/embarkation. Does the ADA apply equally to flag stops as well? It would suck to be required to pour a million dollars into a simple flag stop just on the off chance a disabled person might use it some day. Maybe the next set of Superliners can have things like chair lifts built-in, assuming that would alleviate some of the more expensive ADA requirements on the hundreds of stations out there.

 

[the_traveler]

Maybe the next set of Superliners can have things like chair lifts built-in, assuming that would alleviate some of the more expensive ADA requirements on the hundreds of stations out there.

Superliners do not have a chair lift built in, but they all (except the Diner and CCC) already have a built in wheelchair ramp!

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Some were more recent. I assume cost cutting. Kankakee, Rantoul, effingham are all stops that became flag stops more recently like in the last 5 years or so.

Steve I think you are onto something. I looked at a 1957 timetable and most of those were regular stops then. So I think the broad vague reasoning I gave has some validity but your answer gets the prize.

 

[GaSteve]

Some were more recent. I assume cost cutting. Kankakee, Rantoul, effingham are all stops that became flag stops more recently like in the last 5 years or so.

Steve I think you are onto something. I looked at a 1957 timetable and most of those were regular stops then. So I think the broad vague reasoning I gave has some validity but your answer gets the prize.

I would imagine the whole thing comes down to number and frequency of passengers.

 

[AlanB]

Does the ADA apply equally to flag stops as well? It would suck to be required to pour a million dollars into a simple flag stop just on the off chance a disabled person might use it some day. Maybe the next set of Superliners can have things like chair lifts built-in, assuming that would alleviate some of the more expensive ADA requirements on the hundreds of stations out there.

ADA would still apply, even at a flag stop.

There is a drive through bank near my office. It's just down the street by maybe a football field's length from the main branch with regular tellers, account reps, and such. You can only drive through here; nothing is walk up or walk in. There is never more than 2 employees normally inside the building, with an occasional supervisor. There are 4 parking spots for the staff. And one of them is lined and signed as a handicapped spot.

 

[Tracktwentynine]

Does the ADA apply equally to flag stops as well? It would suck to be required to pour a million dollars into a simple flag stop just on the off chance a disabled person might use it some day. Maybe the next set of Superliners can have things like chair lifts built-in, assuming that would alleviate some of the more expensive ADA requirements on the hundreds of stations out there.

ADA would still apply, even at a flag stop.

There is a drive through bank near my office. It's just down the street by maybe a football field's length from the main branch with regular tellers, account reps, and such. You can only drive through here; nothing is walk up or walk in. There is never more than 2 employees normally inside the building, with an occasional supervisor. There are 4 parking spots for the staff. And one of them is lined and signed as a handicapped spot.

ADA may still apply, but with respect to your bank example, keep in mind that sometimes handicapped parking ratios (and the overall required number of spaces) is often regulated by local zoning.

 

[the_traveler]

ADA may still apply, but with respect to your bank example, keep in mind that sometimes handicapped parking ratios (and the overall required number of spaces) is often regulated by local zoning.

What Alan is saying is that this "office" is ONLY a drive-thru location!

(You have to remain in the car to drive thru the drive-thru teller!) Even if it's a local zoning law, there should be a stupidity exemption!

What is the purpose of having a handicapped parking spot there, if you must be in the car to use the drive-thru teller?

(You can not go inside and there is no ATM there!)

 

[Anthony]

ADA may still apply, but with respect to your bank example, keep in mind that sometimes handicapped parking ratios (and the overall required number of spaces) is often regulated by local zoning.

What Alan is saying is that this "office" is ONLY a drive-thru location!

(You have to remain in the car to drive thru the drive-thru teller!) Even if it's a local zoning law, there should be a stupidity exemption!

What is the purpose of having a handicapped parking spot there, if you must be in the car to use the drive-thru teller?

(You can not go inside and there is no ATM there!)

I suppose it would be to potentially accommodate a handicapped employee, in case one is ever hired?

 

[had8ley]

Let me throw this out for discussion as I have done in the past. Slidell, known for the famous

"Loophole" of days gone past is the first or last stop for both # 19 and # 20. The engine crew is one person on the engine. FRA regs stipulate that a moving train be stopped in order for the engineer to copy a track warrant. In order to get into NOL,or to give up track authority once out of NOL, the engineer has to copy a track warrant. Since Katrina there has been a steady flow of pax both getting on and off both trains (a lot of New Orleanians moved to Slidell and the surrounding area; sometimes as many as 15-20 pax board or de-train.) There is a re-furbed depot with a ton of parking spots and a wheel chair lift in front of the station. Now, just why is the station a flag stop five years after Katrina? And the necessity of copying a track warrant justifies a regular stop. (I don't think Amtrak wants either train stopping twice to copy a warrant when Slidell, as a regular stop, would suffice.)I guess it'll be a toss up as to when the flag comes off of Slidell or we have Sunset east service out of NOL.

P>S> Does anybody at Amtrak read this stuff ??? :help: :help: :help: :help:

 

[AlanB]

ADA may still apply, but with respect to your bank example, keep in mind that sometimes handicapped parking ratios (and the overall required number of spaces) is often regulated by local zoning.

What Alan is saying is that this "office" is ONLY a drive-thru location!

(You have to remain in the car to drive thru the drive-thru teller!) Even if it's a local zoning law, there should be a stupidity exemption!

What is the purpose of having a handicapped parking spot there, if you must be in the car to use the drive-thru teller?

(You can not go inside and there is no ATM there!)

I suppose it would be to potentially accommodate a handicapped employee, in case one is ever hired?

One would hope that with 4 parking spots and only 2 employees normally in the building, that preference would be given to a fellow employee with a handicap without the need for special painted lines and signs.

 

[Trogdor]

The ADA law does not apply to existing flag stops. I don't know if it would apply to new ones, but my guess is that it would.

 

[lepearso]

I think you are right. Amtrak designated several of these stations as flag stops in order to bypass the ADA requirements. These are low ridership stations located in relatively poor rural communities. There may come a day when even these stations have to be upgraded to full accessibility. Some of these stations are quite user-friendly even though they are not ADA compliant. The station in Newbern Tennessee, for example, has no steps, a decent parking lot, a comfortable waiting room, and a nearby police department. It's a real asset to people in the surrounding area even though it's only a flag stop.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

ADA may still apply, but with respect to your bank example, keep in mind that sometimes handicapped parking ratios (and the overall required number of spaces) is often regulated by local zoning.

What Alan is saying is that this "office" is ONLY a drive-thru location!

(You have to remain in the car to drive thru the drive-thru teller!) Even if it's a local zoning law, there should be a stupidity exemption!

What is the purpose of having a handicapped parking spot there, if you must be in the car to use the drive-thru teller?

(You can not go inside and there is no ATM there!)

I suppose it would be to potentially accommodate a handicapped employee, in case one is ever hired?

then the handicapped employee can park in the regular spot if they are by the door.

 

[railiner]

Some were more recent. I assume cost cutting. Kankakee, Rantoul, effingham are all stops that became flag stops more recently like in the last 5 years or so.

I read your comment and took my first look in a long time at the timetable for Rantoul. I see that it is a regular stop for the local trains, but the CONO doesn't even make a flag stop there. When I was stationed at Chanute AFB there, in 1966-67, the city was a boom town of over 25,000, thanks to the training for the Vietnam War.

Now Rantoul is like a ghost town in comparison, since the base closed years ago. When I rode the IC from there, on a Friday afternoon, hundreds of airmen would board the train for Chicago for weekend liberty.

 

[George Harris]

Even if it's a local zoning law, there should be a stupidity exemption!

A stupidity exception in a law? Surely you jest.