Dreamliner Nightmares

[railiner]

Swadian, as much as you seem to love Greyhound, why don't you go to work for them? Then you could ride free......

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Swadian, as much as you seem to love Greyhound, why don't you go to work for them? Then you could ride free......

Naw, I just use them for transport a lot. I'm not a bus driver, and I'm not restricted to taking them every time. As I do fly and take the train sometimes.

 

[jis]

Meanwhile delivery of 787s continue unabated.... In the last two weeks a total of 6 were delivered. one each to JAL, Ethiopian, United and LOT and two to Qatar.

In addition 6 had their first flights one each for China Southern, Norwegian, TUI and LAN, and two for JAL.

And 3 new ones rolled out of the factory, one each for United, Aeromexico and Royal Brunei.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Meanwhile delivery of 787s continue unabated.... In the last two weeks a total of 6 were delivered. one each to JAL, Ethiopian, United and LOT and two to Qatar.
In addition 6 had their first flights one each for China Southern, Norwegian, TUI and LAN, and two for JAL.

And 3 new ones rolled out of the factory, one each for United, Aeromexico and Royal Brunei.

What happened to the British Airways 787? I saw photos of it being rolled out (the first one to have colored engine nacelles, all other airlines opted for Boeing's recommended white or gray) but then never heard about it.

 

[jis]

It was delivered about three or four weeks back in late June

http://www.jaunted.com/story/2013/7/7/142224/5782/travel/Brand+New+British+Airways%3A+A+Bonus+Peek+Inside+Their+Boeing+787+Dreamliner

Here's a very nice photo....

 

[jis]

More on the investigation of the Ethiopian 787 event from The Seattle Times:

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2021456975_787firesourcexml.html

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What are the 787 routes from the US right now?

 

[Texan Eagle]

What are the 787 routes from the US right now?

From top of my head,

All Nippon

San Jose - Tokyo

Japan Airlines

Boston - Tokyo

San Francisco - Tokyo (starts Sept 1)

San Diego - Tokyo

Ethiopian

Washington - Addis Ababa

United

Denver - Tokyo

Houston - Los Angeles

Houston - Denver

Houston - London

LOT Polish

Chicago - Warsaw

I am sure jis knows complete list.

You can see all 787 flights currently in the air worldwide here- http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B788

 

[jis]

Current and planned United 787 routes:

UNITEDFollowing is Current Boeing 787 Routes:

Houston – Chicago eff 20MAY13 1 daily (3 daily from 21MAY13, 4 daily from 22MAY13 to 09JUN13 only)

Houston – Denver eff 21MAY13 1 daily (2 daily from 22MAY13, 3 daily from 24MAY13, 4 daily from 25MAY13. Overall service to operate 1 daily only from 10JUN13)

Houston – Los Angeles eff 24MAY13 2 daily (3 daily from 25MAY13 to 09JUN13)

Houston – London Heathrow 10JUN13 – 11AUG13 1 daily (5 weekly from 02AUG13 to 11AUG13)

Denver – Tokyo Narita eff 10JUN13 1 daily (11JUN13 from NRT)

Future Boeing 787 Routes:

Houston – Lagos eff 12AUG13 5 weekly (13AUG13 from LOS)

Los Angeles – Tokyo Narita eff 01AUG13 1 daily (02AUG13 from NRT)

Los Angeles – Shanghai Pu Dong eff 02AUG13 1 daily (03AUG13 from PVG)

Seattle – Tokyo Narita eff 05NOV13 1 daily (06NOV13 from NRT)

787 international routes from US (current and planned for balance of 2013 with effective dates):

AeroMexico
Mexico City – New York JFK eff 02OCT13 AM402/403 Daily service

ANA

Tokyo Narita – San Jose CA eff 10JUL13 Increase from 5 weekly to 1 daily (Resumed on 01JUN13 with 5 weekly)

Tokyo Narita – Seattle eff 01SEP13 5 of 7 weekly (Day x67, tentatively scheduled; Daily 787 service from 20SEP13)

British Airways

London Heathrow – Newark eff 01OCT13 1 daily (13 weekly from 27OCT13)

JAL

Tokyo Narita – Boston 1 daily

LOT

Warsaw – Chicago eff 05JUN13 11 weekly

Warsaw – New York JFK eff 30JUN13 2 weekly (4 weekly from 01AUG13; 11 weekly from 09AUG13)

Norwegian

Stockholm – New York JFK eff 16AUG13 3 weekly (Instead of 02SEP13)

Oslo – New York JFK eff 01SEP13 3 weekly (4 weekly from 29NOV13)

Copenhagen – Ft. Lauderdale eff 29NOV13 2 weekly

Oslo – Ft. Lauderdale eff 30NOV13 2 weekly

Stockholm – Ft. Lauderdale eff 01DEC13 2 weekly

UNITED

Houston – London Heathrow 10JUN13 – 11AUG13 1 daily (5 weekly from 02AUG13 to 11AUG13)

Denver – Tokyo Narita eff 10JUN13 1 daily (11JUN13 from NRT)

Houston – Lagos eff 12AUG13 5 weekly (13AUG13 from LOS)

Los Angeles – Tokyo Narita eff 01AUG13 1 daily (02AUG13 from NRT)

Los Angeles – Shanghai Pu Dong eff 02AUG13 1 daily (03AUG13 from PVG)

Seattle – Tokyo Narita eff 05NOV13 1 daily (06NOV13 from NRT)

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Much appreciated for the infomation. Man, you guys always seem to pull infromation out of your sleep! I'm sorry if I take up too much of your time with these questions and discussions.

I do not see why there's so many reletively minor destinations served by the 787, like San Jose, San Diego, Fort Lauderdale, and the planned Lagos.

 

[railiner]

Much appreciated for the infomation. Man, you guys always seem to pull infromation out of your sleep! I'm sorry if I take up too much of your time with these questions and discussions.
I do not see why there's so many reletively minor destinations served by the 787, like San Jose, San Diego, Fort Lauderdale, and the planned Lagos.

That's the mission and the beauty of airplanes like the 787. They can make a marginal direct route between a couple of smaller markets, or a large and a small market, profitable, where an A-380 or some other very large airliner could never hope to.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Much appreciated for the infomation. Man, you guys always seem to pull infromation out of your sleep! I'm sorry if I take up too much of your time with these questions and discussions.
I do not see why there's so many reletively minor destinations served by the 787, like San Jose, San Diego, Fort Lauderdale, and the planned Lagos.

That's the mission and the beauty of airplanes like the 787. They can make a marginal direct route between a couple of smaller markets, or a large and a small market, profitable, where an A-380 or some other very large airliner could never hope to.

That sounds like the replacement for the 757 and 767 flying long-distances, except that the 787 is a bigger plane. I'm not gonna lie, I'm just not impressed with the 787's 3-3-3 config in Economy. That would ever be as nice as the 2-3-2 config in the 767 it's supposed to replace.

 

[jis]

Since you do not get the necessary savings in CASM unless you use 3-3-3 in economy, you can rest assured that if they had decided to sell it as a 2-3-2 economy there would have been no 787 since there would be no business case for it. Indeed no one has yet ordered it with 7 abreast in economy. There is an option to order it with 8 abreast in economy, but most airlines have so far selected 9 abreast.

Reduction in CASM will always trump selection of unusually wide economy seats.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Since you do not get the necessary savings in CASM unless you use 3-3-3 in economy, you can rest assured that if they had decided to sell it as a 2-3-2 economy there would have been no 787 since there would be no business case for it. Indeed no one has yet ordered it with 7 abreast in economy. There is an option to order it with 8 abreast in economy, but most airlines have so far selected 9 abreast.
Reduction in CASM will always trump selection of unusually wide economy seats.

I know what you mean, but I'm just saying that the 767 has a narrower cabin, which allows 2-3-2 seating without very wide seats. That's why I don't understand how the 787 can directly replace the 767 or even smaller ETOPS 757s flying across the Atlantic.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Since you do not get the necessary savings in CASM unless you use 3-3-3 in economy, you can rest assured that if they had decided to sell it as a 2-3-2 economy there would have been no 787 since there would be no business case for it. Indeed no one has yet ordered it with 7 abreast in economy. There is an option to order it with 8 abreast in economy, but most airlines have so far selected 9 abreast.
Reduction in CASM will always trump selection of unusually wide economy seats.

I know what you mean, but I'm just saying that the 767 has a narrower cabin, which allows 2-3-2 seating without very wide seats. That's why I don't understand how the 787 can directly replace the 767 or even smaller ETOPS 757s flying across the Atlantic.

787 is not build to directly replace 767. It is built for a specific purpose- to serve secondary routes that are too long for 767 and too small to fill up a giant 777 or 747. Moderate 2nd tier cities across the world is a huge untapped market to offer non-stop connections to places never thought of before.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Since you do not get the necessary savings in CASM unless you use 3-3-3 in economy, you can rest assured that if they had decided to sell it as a 2-3-2 economy there would have been no 787 since there would be no business case for it. Indeed no one has yet ordered it with 7 abreast in economy. There is an option to order it with 8 abreast in economy, but most airlines have so far selected 9 abreast.
Reduction in CASM will always trump selection of unusually wide economy seats.

I know what you mean, but I'm just saying that the 767 has a narrower cabin, which allows 2-3-2 seating without very wide seats. That's why I don't understand how the 787 can directly replace the 767 or even smaller ETOPS 757s flying across the Atlantic.

787 is not build to directly replace 767. It is built for a specific purpose- to serve secondary routes that are too long for 767 and too small to fill up a giant 777 or 747. Moderate 2nd tier cities across the world is a huge untapped market to offer non-stop connections to places never thought of before.

That would be really great for intercontinenetal routes out of those smaller airports like DEN, SEA, PHX, PHL, CLE, BOS, and loads of other ones in the Us and abroad! I really do like the mssion of the 787, while seems different from the larger A350. AFAIK, the A350 is going to meet 777 size/capacity at lower fuel consuption.

So the porblem is, what's going to replace the huge number of ETOPS 757/767 flying long distances? The 787 is still too big, and the 737X/A320neo might challenge the 752, but they can't even think about replacing the 763 or 764. Maybe a smaller 787 or A350 would be the best option or a new 767X. The 767 is a proven, reliable, and versatile platform, so a redesigned wing, new engines, and modified fuselage should result in scores of orders.

 

[CHamilton]

Wing cracks lead to Dreamliner production delay

NEW YORK (AP) — Boeing's much-delayed 787 Dreamliner has hit another production snafu.
Hairline cracks have been discovered in the wings of some 787s that are being built. The Chicago-based manufacturer said none of the 122 jets already flown by airlines around the world are affected....
Boeing said that roughly 40 airplanes might be affected and that it will take one to two weeks to inspect each plane and fix any cracks found on shear ties on a wing rib. A shear tie is an attachment fitting. It is part of the rib — and connects the rib to the wing skin. The company would not give an overall timeframe to inspect all of the wings.
The wings are produced by Japan's Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and then flown to the U.S. to be assembled with other parts of the plane. Inspections are taking place at Boeing's plants in Everett, Wash., and Charleston, S.C., and at the Mitsubishi's plant.
While there might be short-term delivery delays, Alder said Boeing doesn't expect this problem to impact its total year deliveries: 110 new Dreamliners in 2014.

 

[jis]

Seems like a relatively minor thing, though better caught during manufacturing than later.

 

[railiner]

Heard on the TV news that the FAA has found the Boeing 787 Dreamliner to have "A Clean Bill of Health"....

See also....http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/03/20/boeing-787-meets-safety-levels-report

So apparently the issues have been resolved, and Boeing will ramp up production with a goal of 3,000 units....

 

[CHamilton]

Problems still plague 787; Boeing slows assembly in Everett

EVERETT — Untimely work and substandard supplier components continue to be a drag on Boeing's 787 Dreamliner program, say factory workers and others familiar with the production process.

The problems prompted the aerospace giant last month to slow the two 787 assembly lines at Paine Field. From mid-August until early September, no new airplanes rolled out of the factory. Meanwhile, an unusual number of 787s were parked on the Boeing flight line and in other areas of the airport.

The slowdown was part of a production-rate plan drafted two years ago, and that production is getting smoother, said Debbie Heathers, a spokeswoman for the Dreamliner program.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Why would you assemble something in Paine Field? I wouldn't. It's like I wanted to set up in Michigan so I picked hell. Made in Hell.

 

[CHamilton]

The airport was renamed Paine Field, in honor of a World War I Air Corps pilot and Air Mail Service flyer from Everett, Washington, Topliff Olin Paine (1893-1922). http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=8266

At least they didn't name it for one of Car Talk's staffers, Major Paine-Diaz.

 

[CHamilton]

Too cold to fly: Japanese investigators link Dreamliner battery failure to weather

Japanese authorities released a report today speculating why the lithium-ion battery in a Boeing 787 Dreamliner melted last year, causing the fleet to be grounded for months while the problem was resolved....

The Japanese report speculates that internal heating and increased pressure in the battery caused it to expand and melt surrounding insulation materials, something Boeing and other investigative groups have also found.

But the Japanese authorities also suggested, “low temperature during overnight stay possibly contributed to the internal short circuit.”

Low temperatures can cause the primary metal in the battery, lithium, to decompose, according to the report. All three incidents with the Dreamliner batteries last year took place immediately after the batteries were exposed to cold. Japanese authorities recommended Boeing review how external conditions such as cold nights affect the batteries.

 

[CHamilton]

Federal probe points to battery defect in Boeing 787 fire

WASHINGTON (AP) - A short circuit likely due to a manufacturing defect in a Boeing 787 airliner battery caused a fire last year that grounded the planes for more than three months, federal accident investigators said Monday. They also faulted the plane's maker and the Federal Aviation Administration for designing and approving a battery design that didn't protect against such a failure.
An inspection of the GS Yuasa manufacturing plant in Japan where the battery was made found that flaws and debris in lithium-ion aircraft batteries were going undetected, according to the National Transportation Safety Board report. Investigators were able to rule out other possible causes of the short circuit such as overcharging, external heat, or improper installation, the report said.

Boeing failed to anticipate, when testing the battery's design, that a short circuit in one of the its eight cells might lead to uncontrolled overheating known as thermal runaway, which would spread to the other cells and cause them to vent smoke-like vapors and catch fire, the report said. The Federal Aviation Administration was faulted for not catching the design deficiency when it approved the plane for flight.

 

[jis]

So now we can put this puppy to rest presumably, since all this led to a battery container design that lets the battery burn itself out merrily without damaging anything else.