Hoosier State goes from Amtrak to Corridor Capital

[jis]

Lets put it this way. The three letter code is really a non-problem when you are talking about replacing a reservation system with a newer one. Nothing says that the new codes have to be three letter, and all the old codes can be retained as is even with additional aliases thrown in (making good use of the much larger storage and much more capable processors available today). The real problem facing this excellent idea is finding the funding for said overall replacement of the system and the setting up the requisite governance system that all stake holders agree to abide by and use, and body for running the integrated system, plus the associated tarrif and cross charging agreements.

But as is not unusual, us techies are prone to focus on some trivial technical detail while ignoring the real problems until they hit us in our collective face.

 

[Eric S]

Dedicated tracks - I assume this refers to the South of the Lake Route currently being studied, right? Keep in mind this project is largely unfunded at this point, so any reroute is a long, long time from taking place.

Dedicated tracks - I assume this refers to the South of the Lake Route currently being studied, right? Keep in mind this project is largely unfunded at this point, so any reroute is a long, long time from taking place.

South of the Lake reroute has nothing to do with the Cardinal/Hoosier State. It would affect the CL, LSL and Michigan trains. The former PRR mainline though Valpo and Fort Wayne is now a 20 mph short line. It would be very expensive to put it back into shape for passenger trains.

Eh, I should have quoted the post to which I was responding.

At any rate, I assumed the reference to dedicated tracks referred to using the South of the Lake Route (which I believe refers to the entire Chicago Union Station - Porter, IN segment) at least in part, probably only the section nearest CUS and then the talked of rerouting through the Grand Crossing connection.

 

[jis]

Dedicated tracks - I assume this refers to the South of the Lake Route currently being studied, right? Keep in mind this project is largely unfunded at this point, so any reroute is a long, long time from taking place.

South of the Lake reroute has nothing to do with the Cardinal/Hoosier State. It would affect the CL, LSL and Michigan trains. The former PRR mainline though Valpo and Fort Wayne is now a 20 mph short line. It would be very expensive to put it back into shape for passenger trains.

There is also the minor matter of that track connection to the old PRR tracks to Union Station having been severed in Gary, in order to avoid fixing a decrepit, dilapidated moving bridge. There is no simple way to get to the Ft. Wayne line from the Engelwood - Porter Line at present even at 5mph.

 

[MrFSS]

And the plot thickens:

A little-used, delay-plagued passenger rail line from Indianapolis to Chicago has become a battleground, as Amtrak tries to fend off competition invited by the Indiana Department of Transportation.

Amtrak CEO Joe Boardman was at Indianapolis Union Station Wednesday morning to announce that Wi-Fi would be added that day to the Hoosier State line, which also will get light food and beverage service and business-class seating. Boardman departed Indianapolis on the Hoosier State with plans to meet with officials along the route.

FULL STORY

 

[fairviewroad]

Indeed, you can book a business class seat for this evening's 850 departing CHI to IND. It will cost you an extra $38....in other words, more than double the price of your coach ticket. Woo hoo.

 

[William W.]

Are they going to run a business class car on the days that the Cardinal runs?

 

[jis]

So if what seems to be the net net reading the article..... INDOT got upset with the cost of $2.7 million and went out and accepted a bid of $2.8 million, without verifying that the actual guys who were slated to run the trains were willing to do so within the bid amount. And now it is Amtrak's fault that they did not agree with Corridor Capitals wet dreams? Sheesh! One now wonders what kind of idiots manage the RFP process in INDOT. They sure come across like a bunch of Keystone Kops if this is really true. Interesting too that they did not even select the lowest bidder, and yet forgot to verify that the selected party is actually able to provide the service that they bid for! Amazing! Afterall they were just hiring a "Consultant"! Riiiiight!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Is this really what the CEO of Amtrak should be doing ( it really is a PR Dog and Pony Show) when the LD Trains are in a Cluster Flub???

This is the first time I've questioned Boardmans competency as a Manager!!Let them eat Amstew is Not competent Management!

Where's Amtrak's plan Joe????

 

[fairviewroad]

Are they going to run a business class car on the days that the Cardinal runs?

No, but people can always purchase sleeper space if available. I don't think there are any trains in the

Amtrak system that offer both sleeping cars and a BC car. (It's been proposed on the Coast Starlight,

but never implemented)

Other than the schedule, the two trains (Hoosier/Card) are completely different entities.

 

[Ryan]

Is this really what the CEO of Amtrak should be doing ( it really is a PR Dog and Pony Show)

Working to keep the business and show InDOT that Amtrak can deliver a quality product? Sounds like a good use of his time to me.

 

[John Bobinyec]

Is this really what the CEO of Amtrak should be doing ( it really is a PR Dog and Pony Show)

Working to keep the business and show InDOT that Amtrak can deliver a quality product? Sounds like a good use of his time to me.

Not only InDOT, but Washington, Oregon, etc..., as well.

jb

 

[Bob Dylan]

My question pertains to why he isn't on top of his " Team" so they will do something about the mess into/out of CHI! He's perfectly able to do PR work but the Hoosier could go away forever and the revenue lost wont equal what its costing Amtrak now with this cluster flub!!!!!

Where's the plan, and as others are asking,when will Amtrak post info and notify customers of this fiasco????!!!

Thousands of customers want to know!!!!

 

[greatcats]

Well spoken, Mr Hudson!

 

[rickycourtney]

This is clearly Amtrak on the offensive, making a desperate move to keep the contract to operate the Hoosier State.

As John eluded to earlier, I suspect all the states that support an Amtrak route would be watching this private operator experiment closely.

Amtrak's just not worried about losing Indiana... they're worried about losing California, Virginia, Washington/Oregon or the Midwestern states.

If this experiment with Corridor Capitol succeeds in Indiana, it would embolden the other states to leave Amtrak.

 

[jis]

The odd thing though is that the experiment with Corridor Capital cannot succeed without Amtrak's full cooperation well above and beyond what is required of it by PRIIA.

 

[William W.]

I don't really see Virginia ever going away from Amtrak. Unlike the corridor trains in other states, the Virginia trains continue north along the NEC, and I don't see the hassle of a crew change (among other potential issues) between Amtrak and another company being worth it.

 

[PerRock]

Can Amtrak not play ball with CC if they want? Such as not providing them equipment & crews. Or even charging them exorbitant fees to use CUS? Seems like a fairly easy way for Amtrak to make themselves look pretty viable.

It should also be noted that CC has been playing hard ball as well. Their exploits in MI prove that, complaining to the State that the RFP for equipment wasn't fair because it didn't allow them to bid to run the trains.

peter

 

[Paulus]

Amtrak is part of the CC bid, playing hardball would make no sense.

 

[afigg]

Amtrak is part of the CC bid, playing hardball would make no sense.

No, Amtrak is not part of CC's bid. Read the Indianapolis Business Journal article link posted this morning. CC proposal was that CC would provide the rolling stock, support, maintenance and Amtrak would provide the crews to operate the HS. But CC submitted their proposal WITHOUT having either talked to Amtrak (according to Boardman) or any sort of agreement with Amtrak. Based on the article, INDOT does not know what they are doing. They selected the higher priced Capitol Corridor over the lower price Iowa Pacific bid and Iowa Pacific does have rolling stock.

Amtrak has multiple reasons to play hardball here. If other states are paying attention, INDOT and CC are making Amtrak look good.

 

[afigg]

Amtrak issued a news release on their sudden addition of improved service for the HS at the start of the 4 month contract extension: Amtrak Hoosier State Trains Now Offer Free Wi-Fi, Refreshments and Business Class Seating. A cynical person might point that Amtrak could have done this 6 months ago when INDOT posted requests for bid. I wonder once Boardman and the state corridor service managers saw how poorly thought out INDOT's selection was, they realized there was an opportunity to keep the HS contract, so take the shot by adding a cafe-BC car to the consist which would also would provide Wi-Fi.

Excerpt from the news release:

INDIANAPOLIS -- Amtrak is improving service for Hoosier State passengers who travel between Indianapolis and Chicago with the addition of complimentary on-board Wi-Fi, light food and beverages and Business Class seating, Amtrak President and CEO Joe Boardman announced at a series of events on the route in Indiana today.

The addition of the amenities is effective immediately. Amtrak is demonstrating its capabilities while it continues to operate this service under an Indiana Department of Transportation contract extension through Jan. 31, 2015.

Amtrak is Indianas best long-term choice for safe, reliable intercity passenger rail service that connects its people, communities and businesses to the Amtrak national network, Boardman said. Amtrak brings proven expertise in delivering passenger rail service, railroad operations, safety and security, equipment maintenance and repair.

Boardmans comments came at Indianapolis Union Station before he boarded a special whistle-stop train to tour the route with state and local officials. Also attending were some of the 775 Amtrak employees who are Indiana residents and work aboard trains, at stations or maintain and overhaul rail equipment in Beech Grove, Ind.

I do like the not subtle at all mention of the attendance of some of the 775 employees who live in Indiana and/or work at Beech Grove. A move worthy of a defense contractor or any large government contractor for that matter.

 

[Anderson]

The term "FUBAR" comes to mind here. On the one hand, to all appearances Indiana clearly picked a deficient bid...though I am inclined to chalk that off to this basically being their first time out (and possibly to Corridor Capital overpromising in their bid; it is entirely possible that they made it look like Amtrak was contacted, and notably Amtrak did not bid for the route). Hanlon's Razor applies hear IMHO. On the other hand, Amtrak seems to have done an awful job in trying to keep the line until now; to my knowledge they didn't really try to keep the route, and the Business Class/Wifi effort is something they should have done long ago.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

So if this a state support train. Did the state get a bill for the improved features? If your adding service to state contract then the state has to be involved. Right?

We folks in New York would like our cafe cars to be stock and open on the NYC to Albany trains, and of course not have to pay more for it.

I smell a rat. Did Mr Boardman lie during the townhall meeting when he stated he was going to comply with the Law.

I agree with the new service, but how do you explain it to another state?

 

[cirdan]

So if this a state support train. Did the state get a bill for the improved features? If your adding service to state contract then the state has to be involved. Right?

We folks in New York would like our cafe cars to be stock and open on the NYC to Albany trains, and of course not have to pay more for it.

I smell a rat. Did Mr Boardman lie during the townhall meeting when he stated he was going to comply with the Law.

I agree with the new service, but how do you explain it to another state?

One lesson other states are going to be taking home is that if you're nasty to Amtrak you get a better deal than when you're nice. That's not a development I welcome.

 

[jis]

So if this a state support train. Did the state get a bill for the improved features? If your adding service to state contract then the state has to be involved. Right?

We folks in New York would like our cafe cars to be stock and open on the NYC to Albany trains, and of course not have to pay more for it.

I smell a rat. Did Mr Boardman lie during the townhall meeting when he stated he was going to comply with the Law.

I agree with the new service, but how do you explain it to another state?

Not really. Amtrak can choose to provide more service than contracted for on its own, and I doubt any state would complain about such. Secondly, we do not know what the terms for the interim contract between Amtrak and InDOT for running the service through January are. Furthermore, it has been quite evident that what happens in one state contract has little to do with others as long as the minimum bars are met according to PRIIA. Nothing new here as far as that goes. Of course New York could use this information in their negotiations for the next contract.
From what I understand NY State and Amtrak are sort of in a forced deadly embrace. NY State does not currently have the resources to throw at upstate service to actually have it run by someone else and both the state and Amtrak know it. So that plays into the way things are negotiated at this point.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

So if this a state support train. Did the state get a bill for the improved features? ...

...

I agree with the new service, but how do you explain it to another state?

I recall an announcement that ALL corridor trains had free Wi-Fi.

ALL except the Hoosier State -- until now? How was it explained

that every other state had Wi-Fi?

OK, Business Class. Does that mean an added car, or merely

a different car? Doesn't sound like a big cost for that upgrade.

OK, light refreshments. Can Amtrak keep costs low and sell

enuff stuff to break even? Because Boardman promised Mica

and the gang of haters that Amtrak will eliminate losses on

food & beverage service. Then if they can break even on food

& beverages on the Hoosier State, then lessons learned can

be applied elsewhere too.