Hoosier State goes from Amtrak to Corridor Capital

[PRR 60]

A tourist railroad is used by Boardman as an example of intercity rail? If Boardman points to the X-Train Santa Fe - Lamy tourist train failure as an example of a bad non-Amtrak operator, then perhaps he should also point to the Strasburg Railroad as an example of an intercity success. Lame.

Amtrak is smarting from losing the Hoosier State. Suddenly, Boardman shows up on a special train in his private car on a "whistle stop" tour along the Hoosier State line to tout Amtrak. Suddenly, amenities that Amtrak refused to provide for years are provided at no extra charge. This sounds like the VRE all over again. Lose with work, then have a hissy-fit.

Memo to New York and Pennsylvania DOT's. Since Amtrak can provide food service and business class to Indiana for free, ask for the same. Better yet, bid out the service, select someone not named Amtrak, and see what happens.

 

[neroden]

X-Train was attempting to revive the tourist & freight ops of the Santa Fe Southern. The Santa Fe Southern succeeded for over a decade; X-Train didn't last four months. (Sigh.) It is a pretty irrelevant point, but Corridor Capital has no proven record in any of the areas it's advertising itself in. Not in traincar refurbishment, not in leasing, not in OBS operation. Boardman basically said, "Tell us what you want to contract for and we'll do it, but you have to know what you're talking about."

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Memo to New York and Pennsylvania DOT's. Since Amtrak can provide food service and business class to Indiana for free, ask for the same. Better yet, bid out the service, select someone not named Amtrak, and see what happens.

As someone who lives in New York, lets do it.

Boardman basically said, "Tell us what you want to contract for and we'll do it, but you have to know what you're talking about."

One thinks the whole request was about finding what service are out there. Maybe Boardman should try send a list of improvement to the state government and the cost. This way they know what they can have and how much it would cost them.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

It seem Amtrak had a cost increase of 3% to run the train a few extra months, and this why or how the improvement are payed for.

Still for 3% New York can get coffee and snack by cart from Amtrak on the Albany to NYC service.

Seem like a good price. Of course we have a better equipment turn around then the Hooiser, so for us it should be a 1.5% increase.

Can we have someone call Amtrak out on this?

 

[neroden]

I don't have the time or energy for it right now. But the first thing to do is to find the person in NYSDOT who's responsible for contact with Amtrak. Then you call them up on the phone, explaining that you're a rail advocate representing a group of advocates, and you want to get cart food service on the NY-Albany like Indiana got. Follow up with a letter.

It is a little bit easier to be a rail advocate representing a group of rail advocates if you call ESPA or some such group and get them to back your phone call.

The most annoying part of this is probably figuring out who the person in NYSDOT is who's actually responsible. It isn't obvious.

 

[MrFSS]

And the plot thickens:

LINK

 

[Ryan]

 

[Anderson]

I'm seriously wondering if there might not be grounds for a lawsuit, if not outright fraud charges, against Corridor Crapital.

 

[OBS]

Nah, They are probably politically connected in some way, shape or form...

 

[neroden]

I tend to believe that the Indiana Governor is trying to kill the train service, and as such they would deliberately choose the least competent bid.

 

[jis]

I tend to believe that the Indiana Governor is trying to kill the train service, and as such they would deliberately choose the least competent bid.

Frankly, I've been thinking the same way.

 

[afigg]

I tend to believe that the Indiana Governor is trying to kill the train service, and as such they would deliberately choose the least competent bid.

You may be right. On the other hand, rather than a thought out plan or conspiracy, the simpler explanation is to attribute the present situation to a mundane combination of incompetence, ignorance, and indifference at INDOT. A variant of Occam's razor if you will.

 

[neroden]

It's called Hanlon's Razor. Assume incompetence rather than malice.

However, we already know that the Indiana legislature and the governor's office are actively hostile to train service by their earlier actions, which kind of makes me think differently.

(Examples. Legislature: the ban on local rail in Indianapolis, the refusal to fund the Hoosier State. Governor's Office: after every other state agreed on the new PRIIA cost allocation rules, this office wrote a "we refuse to agree with the cost allocation rules but we also refuse to suggest any changes" letter, which required an STB hearing to establish the rules -- this is just deliberate troublemaking.)

 

[Paulus]

Indiana ends negotiations with Corridor Capital, in talks with Amtrak for maintaining service.

 

[Blackwolf]

“INDOT is requesting pricing from Amtrak to continue as operator after January 31, minus certain elements of the existing service that Amtrak is providing, such as rolling stock, onboard services and marketing,”

Emphasis is mine.

That line sounds rather ominous in relation to the recent "upgrades" that the HS received. Back to the former status-quo?

“The good news is that contrary to all the rumors, INDOT is very interested in passenger rail,” West Lafayette Mayor John Dennis said.

Well, that's reassuring. :unsure: :help:

 

[rickycourtney]

“INDOT is requesting pricing from Amtrak to continue as operator after January 31, minus certain elements of the existing service that Amtrak is providing, such as rolling stock, onboard services and marketing,”

Emphasis is mine.
That line sounds rather ominous in relation to the recent "upgrades" that the HS received. Back to the former status-quo?

Or it means that INDOT wants the new services to stay... but they don't want to pay for them.

As I read the article... the contract with Corridor Capital was for operations, rolling stock, onboard services and marketing. INDOT only plans to contract with Amtrak to provide operations. Apparently INDOT is still looking a "rail service provider that has available passenger cars", which comes as a surprise to me.

Come to think of it, is there any rail service provider that has available passenger cars???

There are some old commuter cars up for sale, but nothing really suited for intercity service. I mean a few months ago, Talgo would be the obvious answer... but those are accounted for. Corridor Capital has a fleet of old ex-Santa Fe Hi-Levels... but are they even ready for service?

Heck the market is so bad right now California resorted to refurbishing Comet cars, but that project took years.

 

[Anderson]

“INDOT is requesting pricing from Amtrak to continue as operator after January 31, minus certain elements of the existing service that Amtrak is providing, such as rolling stock, onboard services and marketing,”

Emphasis is mine.
That line sounds rather ominous in relation to the recent "upgrades" that the HS received. Back to the former status-quo?

Or it means that INDOT wants the new services to stay... but they don't want to pay for them.

As I read the article... the contract with Corridor Capital was for operations, rolling stock, onboard services and marketing. INDOT only plans to contract with Amtrak to provide operations. Apparently INDOT is still looking a "rail service provider that has available passenger cars", which comes as a surprise to me.

Come to think of it, is there any rail service provider that has available passenger cars???

There are some old commuter cars up for sale, but nothing really suited for intercity service. I mean a few months ago, Talgo would be the obvious answer... but those are accounted for. Corridor Capital has a fleet of old ex-Santa Fe Hi-Levels... but are they even ready for service?

Heck the market is so bad right now California resorted to refurbishing Comet cars, but that project took years.

“INDOT is requesting pricing from Amtrak to continue as operator after January 31, minus certain elements of the existing service that Amtrak is providing, such as rolling stock, onboard services and marketing,”

Emphasis is mine.
That line sounds rather ominous in relation to the recent "upgrades" that the HS received. Back to the former status-quo?

Or it means that INDOT wants the new services to stay... but they don't want to pay for them.

As I read the article... the contract with Corridor Capital was for operations, rolling stock, onboard services and marketing. INDOT only plans to contract with Amtrak to provide operations. Apparently INDOT is still looking a "rail service provider that has available passenger cars", which comes as a surprise to me.

Come to think of it, is there any rail service provider that has available passenger cars???

There are some old commuter cars up for sale, but nothing really suited for intercity service. I mean a few months ago, Talgo would be the obvious answer... but those are accounted for. Corridor Capital has a fleet of old ex-Santa Fe Hi-Levels... but are they even ready for service?

Heck the market is so bad right now California resorted to refurbishing Comet cars, but that project took years.

Iowa Pacific...or, in this context, better described as "the guys who put in the lower bid and have experience running passenger trains". My understanding is that Corridor Capital probably outdid IP on future plans while IP came in cheaper and...well, probably more realistically.

 

[MrFSS]

The Indiana Department of Transportation has ended contract negotiations with Corridor Capital LLC to provide passenger rail cars, marketing and other services for the Hoosier State line between Indianapolis and Chicago, said INDOT spokesman Will Wingfield.

Wingfield did not comment as to why negotiations were terminated.

LINK

 

[rickycourtney]

Iowa Pacific...or, in this context, better described as "the guys who put in the lower bid and have experience running passenger trains". My understanding is that Corridor Capital probably outdid IP on future plans while IP came in cheaper and...well, probably more realistically.

Riiiight, I totally forgot about Iowa Pacific. So we could see Amtrak crews operating trains with Iowa Pacific equipment. Wasn't that Iowa Pacific's proposal all along?

 

[afigg]

Iowa Pacific...or, in this context, better described as "the guys who put in the lower bid and have experience running passenger trains". My understanding is that Corridor Capital probably outdid IP on future plans while IP came in cheaper and...well, probably more realistically.

Does Iowa Pacific have coach cars ready to go that are fully ADA compliant, cleared for passenger service and meet Amtrak equipment requirements?
So INDOT is now looking to have Amtrak keep running the trains, but with rolling stock provided by someone else, AND get this done by February 1. Ok, sure, no problem. If INDOT really wants to keep the 4 day a week HS but with leased equipment, they will probably ask Amtrak for a contract extension pass February 1 to provide the Horizon cars until the replacement leased equipment is ready for revenue service.

In all of this, I still don't see any mention of the state setting up a capital funding program to pay for track improvements to improve OTP and start to reduce to trip times. Or established plans for a 7 day a week HS on its own schedule. Still, if the Hoosier State survives along with all of the other state corridor trains, the gamble in the 2008 PRIIA act requiring the states to step up and provide subsidies will have been pretty successful.

 

[richm49]

If I read the links correctly regarding this issue, Amtrak is currently operating the Hoosier State service on a four month extension until Jan. 31,2015. If nothing gets done between now and then and this extension period lapses does that mean the end of the Hoosier State service? And if that happens, would Amtrak continue to operate the Cardinal service 3/days/week over that same route?

 

[TinCan782]

“INDOT is requesting pricing from Amtrak to continue as operator after January 31, minus certain elements of the existing service that Amtrak is providing, such as rolling stock, onboard services and marketing,”

Emphasis is mine.
That line sounds rather ominous in relation to the recent "upgrades" that the HS received. Back to the former status-quo?

Or it means that INDOT wants the new services to stay... but they don't want to pay for them.

As I read the article... the contract with Corridor Capital was for operations, rolling stock, onboard services and marketing. INDOT only plans to contract with Amtrak to provide operations. Apparently INDOT is still looking a "rail service provider that has available passenger cars", which comes as a surprise to me.

Come to think of it, is there any rail service provider that has available passenger cars???

There are some old commuter cars up for sale, but nothing really suited for intercity service. I mean a few months ago, Talgo would be the obvious answer... but those are accounted for. Corridor Capital has a fleet of old ex-Santa Fe Hi-Levels... but are they even ready for service?

Heck the market is so bad right now California resorted to refurbishing Comet cars, but that project took years.

Perhaps they could get a good deal on "X-Train" rolling stock. LOL!

 

[Anderson]

Iowa Pacific...or, in this context, better described as "the guys who put in the lower bid and have experience running passenger trains". My understanding is that Corridor Capital probably outdid IP on future plans while IP came in cheaper and...well, probably more realistically.

Does Iowa Pacific have coach cars ready to go that are fully ADA compliant, cleared for passenger service and meet Amtrak equipment requirements?
So INDOT is now looking to have Amtrak keep running the trains, but with rolling stock provided by someone else, AND get this done by February 1. Ok, sure, no problem. If INDOT really wants to keep the 4 day a week HS but with leased equipment, they will probably ask Amtrak for a contract extension pass February 1 to provide the Horizon cars until the replacement leased equipment is ready for revenue service.

In all of this, I still don't see any mention of the state setting up a capital funding program to pay for track improvements to improve OTP and start to reduce to trip times. Or established plans for a 7 day a week HS on its own schedule. Still, if the Hoosier State survives along with all of the other state corridor trains, the gamble in the 2008 PRIIA act requiring the states to step up and provide subsidies will have been pretty successful.

My understanding is that they do. There would be issues with low platforms/high level cars, but that's nothing new and it's the same as everywhere else in the system that Amtrak is running single-level cars without a high-level platform.

 

[afigg]

If I read the links correctly regarding this issue, Amtrak is currently operating the Hoosier State service on a four month extension until Jan. 31,2015. If nothing gets done between now and then and this extension period lapses does that mean the end of the Hoosier State service? And if that happens, would Amtrak continue to operate the Cardinal service 3/days/week over that same route?

Yes, the Cardinal would keep running because it is a federally supported service. If the HS goes away, that will provide Amtrak with an incentive to expand the Cardinal to daily service, but that is a complex topic in its own right.

 

[afigg]

The Plot continues to thicken. INDOT is NOT looking all that competent in handling the bids, the contract award, and the contracts.

Capital Corridor's response posted on their website (saw excerpt on trainorders but not the source): Unexpected changes in Indiana and the Hoosier State.

Corridor Capital LLC learned Saturday evening, November 8, 2014 through a news story in the Lafayette, Indiana Journal & Courier that “negotiations have ended with Corridor Capital” for the reinvention and operation of the Hoosier State to have begun February 1, 2015.

On June 24, 2014, Corridor Capital’s proposal for the operations, marketing and management, as well as providing rolling stock and locomotives for the Hoosier State was accepted by the Indiana Department of Transportation when Corridor Capital was named the preferred vendor. Since June, Corridor has had modern, Amtrak certified equipment ready for retrofit and deployment to the Hoosier State. At all times since receiving the award in a competitive bid procurement, Corridor has been ready, willing and able to meet all deadlines for successful re-introduction of the Hoosier State.

Immediately, at the direction of, and on behalf of Indiana DOT, Corridor Capital began mobilizing personnel and resources to make it possible for an October 1, 2014 start-up, as directed by the INDOT Request for Proposal. In July and August, Corridor Capital agreed to a number of changes in the parameters of the project moving the start-up date to February 1, 2015, all at the request of INDOT, and submitted a letter of intent to be signed by INDOT in August, which was never signed. There have been no changes or negotiations requested since then by INDOT.

Because there are strict, no-exceptions requirements by the Federal Railroad Administration as to filing dates for a number of critical documents, plans and federal approvals for new train services, Corridor Capital, with full knowledge of INDOT, continued to provide personnel and resources to meet the demands of the FRA filing schedule. As late as this week, on Wednesday through Friday, Corridor Capital had personnel on the ground in Indiana working on the requirements of an FRA train emergency service contingency plan, which must be submitted to the FRA no later than 60 days prior to the commencement of a new service.

As of this date, neither INDOT nor any other agency with jurisdiction over the privatization of the Hoosier State has faulted Corridor Capital’s performance either in public statements or in private communications with Corridor. Corridor has complied with all applicable state and federal regulations, has met all the terms and specifications set forth by INDOT in its bid document and its award, and has met all state and federal deadlines governing the service startup. The reason for INDOT’s suspension of the award remains a mystery.

Corridor Capital is working to determine why the Indiana Department of Transportation has made a sudden and unexplained change both in its preferred vendor status for the Hoosier State project and with its ongoing business relationship with Corridor Capital. When more information is available, it will be released to the news media and public.