Hoosier State goes from Amtrak to Corridor Capital

[Ryan]

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Ryan, I knew you'd come up with some gifs.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I'm still not sure how any of this actually improves the Hoosier State. Replacing Horizon cars with Iowa Pacific's somewhat exotic supply of classic cars might provoke some railfan ridership, but the key to making the Hoosier State a viable corridor is improving the actual route to make it competitive with driving. That means finding a better way to get into Chicago and generally remaking the old Monon from a secondary line into an actual signaled, higher speed line. That will cost money, which Indiana doesn't want to spend.

Now, Indiana could put up some money to allow Iowa Pacific to actually purchase - and operate - the route. That would be an improvement. But those tight-pocket conservatives who run Indiana aren't going to do that.

 

[Ryan]

I aim to please.

 

[fulham]

In the article, Corridor Capitol quotes they were going to use single level cars, and that they need to secure a "locomotive". I wonder what single-level cars they are talking about? In looking at their website, they talk of all these big plans of expanding service throughout the Indiana and Ohio area with Indy as the hub. It sounds very impressive, but talk about a company that really doesn't understand how to put words into action.... Also, the people at INDOT that signed off on this without asking the right questions...the blind leading the blind.

Bottom line is, Indy - Chicago could and should be an important corridor in the Midwest. But, it doesn't matter what type of equipment or amenities are offered...you need to have the infrastructure in place to make it happen. Given the lack of suitable current routes between Chicago and Indy today, if Indiana wants convenient rail service between the two cities, they are going to have to step up and pay for major route upgrades. Sadly I don't see this happening anytime soon.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

... the key to making the Hoosier State a viable corridor is improving the actual route to make it competitive with driving. That means finding a better way to get into Chicago and generally remaking the old Monon from a secondary line into an actual signaled, higher speed line. That will cost money, which Indiana doesn't want to spend.

…

Consultants for the Indiana DOT worked up a proposal to upgrade

just the Indiana part of the route for about $200 million. That would

save half an hour out of the trip. And they looked at adding a second

frequency or two, doubling or tripling the ridership, but still costing

$10 million a year or so for operations on top of the capital cost.

New bypasses and most other costs looked to be at the Indianapolis

end. Fine, because the South of the Lake project to get the Michigan

trains thru Illinois and northwestern Indiana at good speeds includes

bringing the Cardinal and Hoosier State down to Gary before turning

south east of there toward Indy.

http://www.in.gov/indot/files/Amtrak_CostBenefitAnalysis_2013.pdf

I thought the study could have been more friendly. For instance, it

gave zero value to highway collision deaths avoided by switching

drivers to the safer train, and other little things that can add up.

Most of all, it gave zero value to the notion (did not analyze or give

a wild guess or even mention) that the Cardinal's results would

surely improve nicely if it were part of a 3-daily-train corridor with

a faster trip time.

Maybe once that black man is out of the White House, then the

un-Reconstructed ex-Confederates and their ex-Copperhead allies

will not feel compelled to oppose absolutely everything that he

favored. Then we might get a few Billion a year to support RR

infrastructure, like the next phase of St Louis-Chicago, South of

the Lake, a Cleveland-Chicago corridor, more trains Twin Cities-

Chicago, next phase of Cascades, new Potomac Long Bridge

and upgrades D.C.-Richmond, getting started on the Richmond-

Raleigh shortcut, and smaller things like some millions to help

upgrade the Indy-Chicago corridor. Even $3 Billion a year on

these projects would be transformative. (Don't think they'd go for

$4 Billion actually; that black man proposed $4 Billion. LOL.)

 

[Ryan]

The plot thickens:

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/2014/11/18/indot-amtrak-whistle-blower/19248481/

But a former executive of Corridor Capital LLC, the company INDOT was negotiating with to manage the service after the state’s contract with Amtrak expires, said INDOT ignored warning signals.

The contractor lacked financing, experience and didn’t have rail cars ready to go, said Mark Singer, who from February until September was Corridor Capital’s vice president of strategic planning and brand management.

Singer said he joined the company believing he could help move a concept to a viable business. He left what he called “an environment of mendacity” after a series of company setbacks, including Chairman Jim Coston’s plan to have Indiana finance Corridor Capital’s startup costs.

“I was shocked to find out his own investors were not going to pony up ... to the table to finance this operation,” Singer said. “The state was going to pay $1.6 million to rehab equipment they were only going to be leasing for two years.”

The state would have paid an additional $1 million in annual lease payments, he said

I think we've move past popcorn and into full on Yakety Sax:

 

[Metra Electric Guest]

On another rail forum I read that is also discussing the Hoosier State situation, this was just posted. Thought it was an interesting thought process:

Just these 5 biking related projects this month that would pay for better than a year and a half of the Hoosier State deal.

I guess bicycle advocates have done a better job presenting their case!

Maybe this is just a plot by the Hoosier Popcorn Association to keep us entertained? Though I would think Orville Redenbacher would have been a train guy...

 

[WoodyinNYC]

On another rail forum I read that is also discussing the Hoosier State situation, this was just posted. Thought it was an interesting thought process:

Just these 5 biking related projects this month that would pay for better than a year and a half of the Hoosier State deal.

I guess bicycle advocates have done a better job presenting their case!

The train advocates don't have the courage to follow the money?

Bike projects are peanuts. Consider real money, like the $1 Billion

interchange -- yes, ONE BILLION DOLLAR interchange rebuild

proposed for Milwaukee. For one billion less spent on highway

interchanges you could take half an hour out of the trip Indianapolis-

Chicago ($200 million) and subsidize the Hoosier State for 40 years

($20 million a year including capital costs). Oops, double counted the

capital cost. So, upgrade the train route, subsidize two trains a day

for 40 years, and still have enuff money to build a bike route from

Green Bay to Terre Haute. LOL.

Anyway, I have the impression that bike advocates are supporters of

passenger rail. Why attack our allies instead of our opponents?

 

[rickycourtney]

I don't think anyone was "attacking" bike advocates... they just seem to be doing a better job lobbying than passenger rail advocates.

But that's not limited to just Indiana...

 

[Anderson]

On another rail forum I read that is also discussing the Hoosier State situation, this was just posted. Thought it was an interesting thought process:

Just these 5 biking related projects this month that would pay for better than a year and a half of the Hoosier State deal.

I guess bicycle advocates have done a better job presenting their case!

The train advocates don't have the courage to follow the money?

Bike projects are peanuts. Consider real money, like the $1 Billion

interchange -- yes, ONE BILLION DOLLAR interchange rebuild

proposed for Milwaukee. For one billion less spent on highway

interchanges you could take half an hour out of the trip Indianapolis-

Chicago ($200 million) and subsidize the Hoosier State for 40 years

($20 million a year including capital costs). Oops, double counted the

capital cost. So, upgrade the train route, subsidize two trains a day

for 40 years, and still have enuff money to build a bike route from

Green Bay to Terre Haute. LOL.

Anyway, I have the impression that bike advocates are supporters of

passenger rail. Why attack our allies instead of our opponents?

The dynamic tends to be a bit more complicated than that (witness some of those rail trail fights, such as some of the stuff surrounding the Purple Line). Generally, though, what seems to happen is that the bike folks get used as handy cover for an anti-rail effort at one time or another...the bike stuff isn't really material to the anti-rail effort except as a handy excuse.

 

[Paulus]

I've seen it pointed out that there's tends to be about two different types of cycling folks and advocates: The more recreational sort, who would be the type to use those trails, and the commuters, who are much more concerned about on-street improvements and the like.

 

[Paulus]

Corridor Capital responds.

Mr. Singer was aware of all actual facts associated with the Hoosier State start-up mobilization. He had zero experience in mobilizing a train service transition,

Did anyone?

 

[PerRock]

If they had, Amtrak would have learned what the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) learned on September 4th, when a large team from the FRA, INDOT staff and virtually the entire Corridor team met at INDOT in the morning and inspected equipment at Columbus in the afternoon: The three coaches and business-class cafe car Corridor arranged to lease for the Hoosier State had operated many times in Amtrak trains carrying charter groups and the cars had passed inspection by the Amtrak Mechanical Department and were certified for operation in Amtrak at speeds up to 110 mph.

So what passenger cars are stored in Columbus (I presume Ohio)?

peter

 

[Anderson]

*sighs*
Let the finger-pointing commence!

 

[MikefromCrete]

If they had, Amtrak would have learned what the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) learned on September 4th, when a large team from the FRA, INDOT staff and virtually the entire Corridor team met at INDOT in the morning and inspected equipment at Columbus in the afternoon: The three coaches and business-class cafe car Corridor arranged to lease for the Hoosier State had operated many times in Amtrak trains carrying charter groups and the cars had passed inspection by the Amtrak Mechanical Department and were certified for operation in Amtrak at speeds up to 110 mph.

So what passenger cars are stored in Columbus (I presume Ohio)?

peter

Could be Columbus, IN., which is just south of Indy, but I've never heard of passenger rail cars being kept at either location.

 

[oldtimer]

Corridor Capital responds.

Mr. Singer was aware of all actual facts associated with the Hoosier State start-up mobilization. He had zero experience in mobilizing a train service transition,

Did anyone?

I understand that most of the CC people were the ones that founded the Twentieth Century Railroad Club that ran excursions.

 

[jis]

That may be part of the problem. Too many people seem to think that running a regular commercial passenger rail service is just like running many one time excursions back to back. They don't appear to understand or acknowledge the fundamental differences between the two, and inevitably find themselves in a mess and then the blame game begins.

 

[TVRM610]

Someone recently posted information on this topic, but the thread was locked. Can threads please be merged? Or at the very least moderators who lock threads should provide a link so we can find more info.

Further... this thread is about Hoosier State in general.. and was started way before the current Corridor Capital issues, I think the current issues could have it's own thread, I don't like how threads get locked for no reason. Lock threads if there is an issue... if something is talked about twice... reference it and leave it alone.

 

[PerRock]

Someone recently posted information on this topic, but the thread was locked. Can threads please be merged? Or at the very least moderators who lock threads should provide a link so we can find more info.

Further... this thread is about Hoosier State in general.. and was started way before the current Corridor Capital issues, I think the current issues could have it's own thread, I don't like how threads get locked for no reason. Lock threads if there is an issue... if something is talked about twice... reference it and leave it alone.

The information posted in the other thread can be found at the bottom of page 12, quoted below (it's in the link fyi).

Corridor Capital responds.

Mr. Singer was aware of all actual facts associated with the Hoosier State start-up mobilization. He had zero experience in mobilizing a train service transition,

Did anyone?

This thread is for the Corridor Capitol take over of the Hoosier State, not the Hoosier State in general, since the cancellation of the take over is still about the takeover and so still relevant.

peter

 

[dlagrua]

Something better be agreed to, and signed by the end of January 2015 or there might not be a Hoosier state or a successor to it.

 

[ruck]

Something better be agreed to, and signed by the end of January 2015 or there might not be a Hoosier state or a successor to it.

That seems to be exactly the case

“There is encouragement on the end of INDOT for us to be a participant in the continuation of this service,” West Lafayette Mayor John Dennis said. “We’re looking at another private contractor to possibly take over that route, and that’s where we are currently in that negotiation.”

Dennis said the city will not continue to pay $16,000 a month to support the line come Feb. 1.

http://wlfi.com/2014/12/02/negotiations-continue-to-save-hoosier-state-line/

 

[TVRM610]

Something better be agreed to, and signed by the end of January 2015 or there might not be a Hoosier state or a successor to it.

That seems to be exactly the case

“There is encouragement on the end of INDOT for us to be a participant in the continuation of this service,” West Lafayette Mayor John Dennis said. “We’re looking at another private contractor to possibly take over that route, and that’s where we are currently in that negotiation.”

Dennis said the city will not continue to pay $16,000 a month to support the line come Feb. 1.

http://wlfi.com/2014/12/02/negotiations-continue-to-save-hoosier-state-line/

Well someone has to pay for the line? Do they think that bill goes away if "fill in the blank" is running the train vs. Amtrak?

 

[jis]

What makes these guys think that just using a private contractor to contract out the running to Amtrak will reduce the overall cost completely beats me. There must be something special in the water that people drink in Indiana.

 

[Bob Dylan]

What makes these guys think that just using a private contractor to contract put the running to Amtrak will reduce the overall cost completely beats me. There must be something special in the water that people drink in Indiana.

It's the right wing mantra jis! Private for profit companies can always do a better job than government, especially when the government subsidizes them!
Check out the political lineup in Indiana, no Thomas Jeffersons or Ben Franklins in office there!