Amtrak never served South Dakota. The only reason North Dakota gets a train is that it's on the BNSF main line between the Twin Cities and Seattle. The only transcontinental route that crossed South Dakota was the Milwaukee Road's Pacific Extension, which was on its last legs when Amtrak started, and was abandoned in large part soon after.
I have always thought the Meridian connection was a boondoggle. The schedule doesn't work and Meridian is a little town in the middle of nowhere. A better option is to include an Eagle connection from Little Rock to Memphis which connects with the CONO which brings cars down from Chicago for Florida. The combined train then goes to Florida via Birmingham and Atlanta and connects with the Silver Star. It also conveniently connects with the Crescent in Atlanta to DC and New York. It would be a recreation of the Eagle to Memphis and the KC-Florida Special with a Chicago connection. It covers a lot of options by giving Chicago a direct connection to Florida and DFW a through train to Florida with an optional connection to DC and NY. It boosts ridership on the Eagle and the CONO and gives Atlanta a north-south connection.
Yeah, I'd like to see that. However, maybe via Sioux Falls, Sioux City, and Omaha, instead of Des Moines. It could even extend further south from Kansas City, perhaps Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas.
Actually the Crescent Star was probably one of the best ideas that ever came out of the Network Growth Strategy of the Warrington era. Providing a 1 seat ride between the Dallas/Fort Worth area to the east would mean that Texan's would not have to go via Chicago and a train change to reach Atlanta, DC, Baltimore, Philly, and New York City. It would have been a 1 night ride from Dallas to Atlanta, instead of the current 3. And while it would still be a 2 night ride to the other cities, it would not have required changing trains in Meridian.
Further more, look at some of the routes we could have had by 2001 if perhaps the process were more in line with private business practices:
Of these, only the Texas Eagle returning to daily service was implemented and survives to this day with an extraordinary ridership and popularity despite its huge shortcomings.
Alan, I am not arguing with you just stating my opinion. The Crescent Star may have been a railfans dream, but it would be a nightmare to implement. I tried working with the schedule from Dallas to connect with the Crescent and it just doesn't work. The project was primarily the dream of one John Robert Smith, the then mayor of Meridian. He built this multi million dollar 'intermodal' center to serve his one train a day and a few Greyhounds. He finally left Meridian to go to DC, so now that fool is trying to influence Federal transportation policy. Like I said, it's an idea who's time will never come. Texas would be much better off with a connection to Colorado and an extended Heartland Flyer. Trains that go somewhere Texans want to go. If the Crescent Star was such a good idea the private railroads would have implemented it years ago when they ran the nations passenger trains. Connections to the east went through St Louis and New Orleans........not Meridian, Mississiippi. Bring back the National Limited and the Louisiana Eagle. Here is Mr. Smith for those that don't know him. I have heard his speech in person.
Also not arguing, but I'm curious, pray tell why it would have been a nightmare to implement? Other than the fact that Amtrak had stretched the Viewliner fleet too far. And while I don't recall the precise schedule anymore, I do know that calling times in the DFW area were in daylight, not at midnight.
Yes, I'm well aware of who John Robert Smith was, and in addition to being the Mayor at that time, he was also President of the Amtrak board.
So Texans never go to Atlanta, DC, Philly, or NY?
I won't pretend to be the historian that Bill Haithcoat is or some others who command considerable knowledge like Bill, but when I look at some old maps it sure does look like trains used to go through Meridian, or certainly close to it. Here's just one example: http://www.narprail.org/cms/images/uploads/map62.pdf
Actually, the freight pretty much could not do anything to stop those passenger/freight trains. The best weapon that they had was to limit Amtrak to 30 cars, be they freight or passenger. Most of those trains failed to happen because either the original hoped for freight contracts fell through, or Amtrak couldn't find the cars to run the trains. Plus by the time some of those routes were to be implemented, Warrington was gone and cooler heads prevailed.
I know that the IC used to run trains Meridian-Shreveport. I was unable to find any information about through cars to DAL going to Meridian.
The IC ran one little coach train that took 10 hours to cover the 313 miles between Shreveport and Meridian(at one time it carried a through heavy weight sleeper between Shreveport and DC). It is an additional 200+ miles and 4 to 5 hours from Dallas to Shreveport. There are 24 nonstop flights today between Dallas and Atlanta taking about 2hrs, but Atlanta is a Delta hub and many of these flights go on to somewhere else. Greyhound has 5 buses a day taking 18+ hours. The bus route is through Meridian. Eastbound the Crescent leaves Meridian at 11:07am. To match that the Star would have to leave Dallas late at night. I assume they could do better than 14 hours between Dallas and Meridian, but it matters little as it would still be an overnight journey and would serve Shreveport, the only large city, in the wee hours. Westbound the Crescent arrives in Meridian at 2:58pm. 12 hours from that would put the Star into Dallas very early in the morning. It's still another 8hrs from Meridian to Atlanta. At the time you could still connect in St Louis with the National Limited to DC and NY. The Meridian route is still two nights out to DC or NY any way you cut it. I have no idea why this wasn't implemented as I was not paying much attention to Amtrak at that time. If they ran it as a separate DFW to Atlanta train at decent hours it might work, but not connecting to the existing Crescent. But, like I said, Colorado is a much more important destination for Texans than Atlanta and probably second is Orlando to see the mouse. A lot of people used the Sunset east to Florida inspite of the long travel times. You can still get to DC and NY by train, two nights out, via Chicago. Who cares about Atlanta? Florida, maybe.
Well. instead of going south from Des Moines, it could go west to Omaha and then south to Kansas City (and then some). This would allow for connections with the Zephyr which isn't an option going straight south out of Des Moines. Although your route does solve the "no service in South Dakota" problem.
I agree, the south is under served. Which is why I'm stunned to hear you say that and then in the same breath put down extra service in the south. Makes no sense to me at all.
Primarily because South Dakota does not happen to have any major thru rail routes currently. And its largest cities are not large enough or near enough to Amtrak hubs to warrant a stub service....
Looking at the numbers, the only way the CS would have worked is if either KBH et al had managed to secure an earmark for some additional rolling stock or Amtrak had been flat-out ordered to keep the old Santa Fe sleepers in service for another decade. Now, as much fun we can all have thinking about an all-Heritage train running deep into the 21st Century, it's not the most practical thing in the world.
Alan you still don't address how a train that leaves Dallas at 11pm or later and arrives back in Dallas at 3am is a viable service, expecially when it serves it's only other large city, Shreveport, in the wee hours both ways. The rest of the route is devoid of any real traffic. Like I said, this train might make sense if it operated on it's own as a basic overnighter on an 18 hour schedule arriving at both ends in the morning. Perhaps westbound it could arrive in Shreveport early and Dallas mid to late morning. But then it misses the connection with the southbound Eagle. I really question if there would be enough through passengers to the East coast to justify such a train. To start up a train like this when there are so many other more critical needs makes no sense. In addition, just ignoring the obvious schedule problems, to do all that switching in little Meridian when Amtrak can't even switch out sleepers and coaches in Atlanta is ludicrous. The whole CS thing was a John Robert Smith boondoggle from the start created by him to put his little burg on the map. To argue over the failed CS whos time will never come, I would suggest we concentrate on things like Chicago to Florida, restore the Sunset east, Texas to Colorado and beyond to Portland, MSP to Chicago corridor service, Texas triangle corridor service, the SWC reroute or not, service to Phoenix, Denver to Alburquerque and LA., multiple trains on routes like Chi to NYP and Chi to LA., St Louis to DC and NY and west to Denver. The list is almost endless.
That part about 11pm and 3am is a complete red herring. No one will complain if the train schedule were padded enough for it to depart Dallas at 8pm and arrive at 7am.
How about: Toronto - Detroit (Dearborn) - Cincinnati - Atlanta - Orlando (Jacksonville?)
I don't like this idea. I think it could work if you spilit it into Toronto-Detroit-Chicago and Detroit-Cincicnati-Atlanta-Jacksonville-Miami with through cars from Chicago. Thorugh cars from Toronto would be better off going though Buffalo and Cleveland. That was how the New Royal Palm worked except that the through cars only went to BUF, not Toronto.
