If You Could Initiate One New Amtrak Route..........

[Anderson]

So Illinois doesn't make the effort to get to Janesville or even Indianapolis.

*has a Post-Train Stress Disorder episode about the ridership on the Lake Country Limited*

All sarcasm aside, I'd like to point out that money/efficiency side of things isn't able to play into things like it should be able to in some places. In particular, VA's through trains heading north of WAS are virtually all incremental to Amtrak's bottom line by a substantial amount, but if VA doesn't fund them, Amtrak can't run them.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I think that the Pioneer: Seattle - Portland - Boise - Ogden - Cheyenne - Denver plus going through to Houston via Colorado Springs, Amarillo, Lubbock, Killeen and College Station would cover the most territory, and would bring in cities (that either had never had Amtrak service or lost that service) with a total population of more than 2,000,000, plus all the surrounding countryside. I am not sure that the tracks are in place to add College Station, but a Pioneer that covered nearly 2500 miles in two days covering the US in SE/NW direction that is so lacking... Well it would be a world class train for scenery! A good mix of mountains, desert, plains and everything in between.

Having a re-furbed Budd Car to connect Ogden to Salt Lake City would be like getting biscuits with your beer! I imagine Amtrak would use buses since they may be cheaper in the short term, though. Or is there commuter rail already on that stretch?

FrontRunner is supposed to cover that stretch at some point, though I can't recall the timeframe on that.

Ok, I went and checked. Right now, FrontRunner runs from Ogden to SLC. The plan is to extend it to Provo by the end of the year; there are longer-term plans to extend service to Brigham City and Nephi (which would put the length of the line well over 100 miles).

This is a good route, but it needs to go through DFW rather then Lubbock and Killeen. You are missing some 5-6 million people by diverting to that route. Lubbock could be connected by a bus to Amarillo. The only real bottle neck on the route is the Colorado Springs to Palmer Lake section of single track. BNSF now runs directionally between Pueblo and Amarillo using two different routes. You can connect Houston either through Fort Worth using the BNSF route or through Dallas using either the BNSF or UP routes. The BNSF route through Fort Worth was the Lone Star route so it is passenger train ready. The other routes would require some work. The rest of the route north to Denver is in excellent shape and is fully signalled now. It's just full of coal trains. The UP route north of Denver and across Wyoming is multi-track. If you reincarnated the Desert Wind at the same time it could connect in Ogden. The CZ could bring over cars from Chicago to connect in Denver. I would not even try and make any connections with the CZ in SLC. Here is a schedule:

(long schedule)

I am amazed at your effort, but this timetable would make it a lot easier: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/texzephyr194106.html

This also helps: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/samhouzeph194112.html

 

[henryj]

I am amazed at your effort, but this timetable would make it a lot easier: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/texzephyr194106.html

This also helps: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/samhouzeph194112.html

Thanks for the links. But I have all those. I have bunches of railroad timetables I picked up over the years and the Official Guides from 1918 until and through Amtrak. just not every year. Some are reprints and are easier to work with as they are on good paper. You can still buy reprints on ebay. I based my timing on the original Texas Zephyr timings and Amtrak's timing of the Pioneer. I left off a lot of the connections as it's too complicated to put on here. But the train connects with the Eagle in Fort Worth and if they reroute the SWC it would connect in Amarillo. It also connects with the Heartland Flyer which I extended to KC and MSP. I guess I like playing with timetables and schedules. It would all work great if Amtrak had any inclination to do something like that. But I guess we are lucky to just have what we have.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I am amazed at your effort, but this timetable would make it a lot easier: http://www.streamlin...phyr194106.html

This also helps: http://www.streamlin...zeph194112.html

Thanks for the links. But I have all those. I have bunches of railroad timetables I picked up over the years and the Official Guides from 1918 until and through Amtrak. just not every year. Some are reprints and are easier to work with as they are on good paper. You can still buy reprints on ebay. I based my timing on the original Texas Zephyr timings and Amtrak's timing of the Pioneer. I left off a lot of the connections as it's too complicated to put on here. But the train connects with the Eagle in Fort Worth and if they reroute the SWC it would connect in Amarillo. It also connects with the Heartland Flyer which I extended to KC and MSP. I guess I like playing with timetables and schedules. It would all work great if Amtrak had any inclination to do something like that. But I guess we are lucky to just have what we have.

BTW, I see that you've taken the Flying Crow. I would really like to know about that train.

 

[Nathanael]

So Illinois doesn't make the effort to get to Janesville or even Indianapolis.

*has a Post-Train Stress Disorder episode about the ridership on the Lake Country Limited*

All sarcasm aside, I'd like to point out that money/efficiency side of things isn't able to play into things like it should be able to in some places. In particular, VA's through trains heading north of WAS are virtually all incremental to Amtrak's bottom line by a substantial amount, but if VA doesn't fund them, Amtrak can't run them.

Yeah. That is ridiculous, isn't it?

Anyway, that's why I said "Detroit to New York", which would be longer than the magic cutoff number of miles for a train which "must be state funded", rather than "Detroit to Toledo", which wouldn't be. It would require additional equipment though.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I am amazed at your effort, but this timetable would make it a lot easier: http://www.streamlin...phyr194106.html

This also helps: http://www.streamlin...zeph194112.html

Thanks for the links. But I have all those. I have bunches of railroad timetables I picked up over the years and the Official Guides from 1918 until and through Amtrak. just not every year. Some are reprints and are easier to work with as they are on good paper. You can still buy reprints on ebay. I based my timing on the original Texas Zephyr timings and Amtrak's timing of the Pioneer. I left off a lot of the connections as it's too complicated to put on here. But the train connects with the Eagle in Fort Worth and if they reroute the SWC it would connect in Amarillo. It also connects with the Heartland Flyer which I extended to KC and MSP. I guess I like playing with timetables and schedules. It would all work great if Amtrak had any inclination to do something like that. But I guess we are lucky to just have what we have.

BTW, I see that you've taken the Flying Crow. I would really like to know about that train.

The Flying Crow was Kansas City Southern's secondary train between Kansas City and Shreveport with branches to New Orleans and to Beaumont and Port Arthur, Texas. The Kansas City Southern touted their railroad "as the crow flies" because it was almost a straight route from Kansas City to the Gulf of Mexico. Even though the Flying Crow was a secondary train with lots of stops due to carrying lots of mail, it still carried a sleeping car from Kansas City to Shreveport and a observation diner lounge from Kansas City to New Orleans and from Sherveport to Port Arthur. The train was a local overnight train between Kansas City and Shreveport and daylight train from Shreveport to New Orleans and Shreveport to Port Arthur. Between Shreveport and New Orleans, trains operated over the former Louisiana and Arkansas Railroad which had two routes from Shreveport to Alexandria with the Flying Crow taking the route along the Red River through Clarence and The Southern Belle taking the more northerly route through Minden. The KCS operated excellent passenger service later than most small railroad. They even built new chair cars which are still operating in North Carolina. Unfortunately, the Railway Post Office discontinued the RPO cars in 1968 so the Flying Crow came off in 1968 and the Southern Belle and a year later in November, 1969. The Flying Crow made some interesting late night or early morning connections. There was a good connection at Howe, OK with Rock Island's Choctow route. I live in Hot Springs, AR in junior high and high school use to take trips on KCS and Rock Island as well as MoPac trains in the early to mid 1960s and found myself changing in Howe several time. The KCS also did away with the first class fare for Sleeping Cars so you only paid the room rate in addition to your coach ticket.

 

[xyzzy]

BTW, they could use the line through McCaysville, it looks to be in full service just light loads.

You're kidding, right? The last regularly scheduled L&N passenger train that ran this route took 8+ hours to go 227 miles between Knoxville and Atlanta. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the rail dates to the 1920s or before. Much of the line will have 25 mph speed limits because of curvature, regardless of rail condition. For a tourist railroad, nobody cares about speed -- but for people who want to get between Chicago and Florida in a reasonable length of time, it matters.

 

[henryj]

BTW, I see that you've taken the Flying Crow. I would really like to know about that train.

Well I was at basic training at Fort Polk in the Fall of 1963. Me and seven others were selected to go to Germany. We went by rail, first class. We boarded the Flying Crow in Leesville in January and rode in the Obsv. as far as Texarkana where we boarded the Texas Eagle for St Louis. On the Eagle we had the Slumbercoach. The NE part of the country was in the grip of a major snow storm. The Eagle was late into St Louis and we missed our connection to the NYC Southwestern Limited. We also missed the Pennsy's Penn Texas. The station agent got us on the Spirit of St Louis to New York. We had adjoining bedrooms and the porter opened the wall so we had them 'in suite'. So we did what all service men do, we sat around and played cards. They fed us in the diner. The Army had regulations as to what they fed us. In NY the Army picked us up and took us to the Brooklyn Army Terminal where we boarded a troop ship for Germany. When I came back three years later we flew back and most of the trains were gone. By now I am sure you are sorry you asked. lol. The real story is that they gave our orders to a guy that had reinlisted. He was clueless. His suggestion in St Louis was that we just sit there and wait for the Army to come get us. I was the one that directed him to the ticket agent. In NY we had arrived at Penn Station rather then Grand Central so the Army had no idea where we were. He just wanted to sit and wait for them to find us. I suggested he try and call Brooklyn Army Terminal and let them know where we were. Nothing happenned. Finally one of the other guys came up to me and offered me his change if I would make the call. They were glad to hear from us and sent a bus to pick us up. I am glad I got to ride those three trains as it was my only chance as it turned out. Not much on the Flying Crow, but then someone else gave you all the details. I think they fed us a box lunch dinner on that train.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I am amazed at your effort, but this timetable would make it a lot easier: http://www.streamlin...phyr194106.html

This also helps: http://www.streamlin...zeph194112.html

Thanks for the links. But I have all those. I have bunches of railroad timetables I picked up over the years and the Official Guides from 1918 until and through Amtrak. just not every year. Some are reprints and are easier to work with as they are on good paper. You can still buy reprints on ebay. I based my timing on the original Texas Zephyr timings and Amtrak's timing of the Pioneer. I left off a lot of the connections as it's too complicated to put on here. But the train connects with the Eagle in Fort Worth and if they reroute the SWC it would connect in Amarillo. It also connects with the Heartland Flyer which I extended to KC and MSP. I guess I like playing with timetables and schedules. It would all work great if Amtrak had any inclination to do something like that. But I guess we are lucky to just have what we have.

BTW, I see that you've taken the Flying Crow. I would really like to know about that train.

The Flying Crow was Kansas City Southern's secondary train between Kansas City and Shreveport with branches to New Orleans and to Beaumont and Port Arthur, Texas. The Kansas City Southern touted their railroad "as the crow flies" because it was almost a straight route from Kansas City to the Gulf of Mexico. Even though the Flying Crow was a secondary train with lots of stops due to carrying lots of mail, it still carried a sleeping car from Kansas City to Shreveport and a observation diner lounge from Kansas City to New Orleans and from Sherveport to Port Arthur. The train was a local overnight train between Kansas City and Shreveport and daylight train from Shreveport to New Orleans and Shreveport to Port Arthur. Between Shreveport and New Orleans, trains operated over the former Louisiana and Arkansas Railroad which had two routes from Shreveport to Alexandria with the Flying Crow taking the route along the Red River through Clarence and The Southern Belle taking the more northerly route through Minden. The KCS operated excellent passenger service later than most small railroad. They even built new chair cars which are still operating in North Carolina. Unfortunately, the Railway Post Office discontinued the RPO cars in 1968 so the Flying Crow came off in 1968 and the Southern Belle and a year later in November, 1969. The Flying Crow made some interesting late night or early morning connections. There was a good connection at Howe, OK with Rock Island's Choctow route. I live in Hot Springs, AR in junior high and high school use to take trips on KCS and Rock Island as well as MoPac trains in the early to mid 1960s and found myself changing in Howe several time. The KCS also did away with the first class fare for Sleeping Cars so you only paid the room rate in addition to your coach ticket.

Great info, thanks a bunch. Since this thread is about new Amtrak routes, a KCY-NOL train would be great. Not much Interstates or flights, either, just some buses.

BTW, they could use the line through McCaysville, it looks to be in full service just light loads.

You're kidding, right? The last regularly scheduled L&N passenger train that ran this route took 8+ hours to go 227 miles between Knoxville and Atlanta. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the rail dates to the 1920s or before. Much of the line will have 25 mph speed limits because of curvature, regardless of rail condition. For a tourist railroad, nobody cares about speed -- but for people who want to get between Chicago and Florida in a reasonable length of time, it matters.

Oh, great. Eight hours is just far too much.

BTW, I see that you've taken the Flying Crow. I would really like to know about that train.

Well I was at basic training at Fort Polk in the Fall of 1963. Me and seven others were selected to go to Germany. We went by rail, first class. We boarded the Flying Crow in Leesville in January and rode in the Obsv. as far as Texarkana where we boarded the Texas Eagle for St Louis. On the Eagle we had the Slumbercoach. The NE part of the country was in the grip of a major snow storm. The Eagle was late into St Louis and we missed our connection to the NYC Southwestern Limited. We also missed the Pennsy's Penn Texas. The station agent got us on the Spirit of St Louis to New York. We had adjoining bedrooms and the porter opened the wall so we had them 'in suite'. So we did what all service men do, we sat around and played cards. They fed us in the diner. The Army had regulations as to what they fed us. In NY the Army picked us up and took us to the Brooklyn Army Terminal where we boarded a troop ship for Germany. When I came back three years later we flew back and most of the trains were gone. By now I am sure you are sorry you asked. lol. The real story is that they gave our orders to a guy that had reinlisted. He was clueless. His suggestion in St Louis was that we just sit there and wait for the Army to come get us. I was the one that directed him to the ticket agent. In NY we had arrived at Penn Station rather then Grand Central so the Army had no idea where we were. He just wanted to sit and wait for them to find us. I suggested he try and call Brooklyn Army Terminal and let them know where we were. Nothing happenned. Finally one of the other guys came up to me and offered me his change if I would make the call. They were glad to hear from us and sent a bus to pick us up. I am glad I got to ride those three trains as it was my only chance as it turned out. Not much on the Flying Crow, but then someone else gave you all the details. I think they fed us a box lunch dinner on that train.

Great story even though not much info! Wish I could've taken those trains, I was born after Amtrak!