If you had to eliminate one Amtrak route...

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johnny.menhennet

johnny.menhennet

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We have had a lot of discussions recently about what train services would be beneficial or what we would like to have, so I had a question for clash's sake. If you were in charge of determining the one route that had to be cut from the system entirely, so not just reduce frequency, but completely eliminate, what would it be? I know that this is extremely subjective, but that's ok. I will let you guys gauge how you determine this, whether it is ridership, redundancy in the system, losses, etc., as long as you explain it. Personally, I do not have nearly as much experience as many of you others when it comes to the actual logistics of the network and other things, and I don't actually have a route in mind. I was just wondering's everybody's opinions.

BTW I don't want any "Crescent south of Atlanta" or "EB west of St. Paul," I'm looking for a full route elimination and reasons. Thanks for your answers. I just think that this will be pretty interesting.
 
One route to eliminate? Definitely the Sunset Limited. Why? To end the interminable Sunset East threads. Extreme? Perhaps, but desperate times require desperate measures.
 
Any route except those that serve my needs. :ph34r:

I don't know enough about riderships, etc to make an educated or uneducated suggestion.
 
Since your thread asks for One LD route to eliminate it's gotta be the Sunset Ltd. due to the Losses and the tie up of Crews and Equipment that is needed on the other Superliner Routes! The good news is that Id go with a Daily Texas Eagle from CHI-LAX and have a Daily Stub Train made up of Two CCCs (one for Biz Class) and a Coach or Two (depending on Ridership) from SAS-NOL. The so called "Deal" that Amtrak made with UP to not discuss this for Two Years be damned! :excl: :excl: :excl: (Second choice would be the Cardinal but that's another story!)
 
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henryj said:
I would eliminate the NEC and all LD trains east of the Mississippi.
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?

If I had to axe one route, I'd say either Silver Star or Silver Meteor, whichever has lower ridership of the two. Both go from NE to Florida, only by taking different detours midway through the journey. Plus there is Auto Train to Florida too. If someone's gotta go, its a hard decision, but one of the Silvers should go.
 
VentureForth said:
66/67. You can't run a regional that long without sleepers. I like the idea, but it needs to be a named sleeper train with a longer route.
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#66 & 67 are trains, not an entire route. Which provide service to many city pairs, not all at night, along the NPN to BOS route. Besides reports are that Amtrak plans to add sleeper cars to 66/67 when the CAF Viewliners sleepers are available.

Not sure what this topic will add to the conversation. The Sunset Limited is the LD train at the greatest risk of cancellation, but it is the only remaining Amtrak train serving several major cities and a large part of the country that otherwise would have no intercity passenger service at all. And once given up, passenger service over a route is difficult and expensive to bring back. Besides, ridership on the SL is up +5.1% for the first 7 months of the fiscal year. Why cancel a service with a positive ridership and revenue trend?

The one Amtrak train that is likely to be eliminated in the next year or two is the Hoosier State. Could be replaced by a daily Cardinal, but as frequently discussed here, there are hurdles to a daily Cardinal service.
 
Easy...SL is the low hanging fruit. Redeploy the equipment to more lucrative routes.
 
Threads like this tend to be more pointless than the "what route would you add" threads.
 
Easy. I'd eliminate the Silver Meteor, and run the Star with a bag-dorm, 5 sleepers, two lounges (overflow seating), a diner, and 7 coaches, scheduled to connect with the Palmetto at JAX. You'd lose almost no capacity, no stations, and limited ease.
 
Texan Eagle said:
If I had to axe one route, I'd say either Silver Star or Silver Meteor, whichever has lower ridership of the two. Both go from NE to Florida, only by taking different detours midway through the journey. Plus there is Auto Train to Florida too. If someone's gotta go, its a hard decision, but one of the Silvers should go.
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I would agree, but only if the AT was open to non-auto passengers.

And have a few NEC that go to Lorton for connections to the AT.
 
Keep in mind that any Amtrak route that is discontinued would likely never come back. Since the current system is extremely skeletal, no route should be eliminated. When Amtrak started, we were told that service on many of the discontinued routes would be restored as soon as Amtrak was organized and had some new equipment. A few came back, but they were very political. Many more have left so I hope the last one has been discontinued.
 
Texan Eagle said:
If I had to axe one route, I'd say either Silver Star or Silver Meteor, whichever has lower ridership of the two. Both go from NE to Florida, only by taking different detours midway through the journey. Plus there is Auto Train to Florida too. If someone's gotta go, its a hard decision, but one of the Silvers should go.
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I'd go with one of the Silvers as well for the same reasons. Makes the most sense to me anyway.

Trogdor said:
Threads like this tend to be more pointless than the "what route would you add" threads.
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And the "point" of your own post is?
 
The springfield shuttles. I wouldn't get rid of them but replace the amtrak equipment with some RDCs. that would free up a few p-42s and amfleets.
 
Without question the Cardinal. Continually late and from what I have been told uses older trains/cars and such and doesn't provide the quality of say the LSL or CL that can get you to the east coast quicker and better.
 
dn4192 said:
Without question the Cardinal. Continually late and from what I have been told uses older trains/cars and such and doesn't provide the quality of say the LSL or CL that can get you to the east coast quicker and better.
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That's not accurate--the Cardinal runs with a Viewliner and Amfleet coaches. The big problem is that the Cardinal doesn't have older cars--there aren't enough diners to go around so it runs with an Amfleet dinette (of sorts). There's an expectation that once the new Viewliners become available and the Buckingham Branch (?) is rehabbed the Cardinal will run daily. It's also the only train serving southern Ohio, northern Kentucky, and West Virginia.

I'd have to agree about killing the Sunset Limited just to end the Sunset East discussions, but then it would be just like the Pioneer and North Coast Hiawatha--endless discussions about restoring service, facts be damned (no one in this climate, or any climate, will ante up a billion dollars to drive a daily frequency through southern Montana).
 
I agree that the current system is skeletal and it's not worth eliminating anything. But if we *had* to?

Hoosier State. It probably will actually be eliminated because it's subject to section 209, and unlike every other "corridor" route, Indiana won't spend any money on it. There *could* and *should* be a good train route running between Indianapolis and Chicago, but the Hoosier State isn't it, being slower than a bus.

After that, the Cardinal. Three-a-week service is a disaster. I was trying to plan out a trip to Indianapolis involving the Cardinal and I couldn't make the timing work. Three-day-a-week service is just a non-starter; it needs to be daily or nothing. Amtrak is clearly keeping the Sunset Limited because Amtrak sees great potential in a daily Sunset Limited (and it does have great potential) and wants to keep their "marker" on the track.

But I'm not sure that even a daily Cardinal has great potential. The Buckingham Branch track it runs on keeps being downgraded to the point where it has no chance of keeping time. Indiana and Ohio won't spend a penny for it. It will never, ever be fast due to its curvy gorge-following route. And the state which it really benefits, West Virginia, has collapsing population. Yes, the New River Gorge is scenic; so run a tourist train. Yes, there should be rail service to Indianapolis and Cincinnati. But the Cardinal isn't really providing that.

As for the other trains people have mentioned, the Silver Service is growing in ridership and it would be silly to cut either train; they also have economies of scale, so cutting one train of the group would probably worsen Amtrak's financial situation. The Springfield Shuttles probably *will* be eliminated... from Amtrak... when Connecticut finishes setting up their commuter service along the Springfield line (currently funded, but lots of trackwork to do). 66/67 are, according to rumor, going to get their sleepers back when enough new Viewliners arrive.
 
Mackensen said:
I'd have to agree about killing the Sunset Limited just to end the Sunset East discussions, but then it would be just like the Pioneer and North Coast Hiawatha--endless discussions about restoring service, facts be damned (no one in this climate, or any climate, will ante up a billion dollars to drive a daily frequency through southern Montana).
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The odd thing about the "billion dollar" estimate is that most of the cost wasn't for the Montana portion of the route but for the North Dakota and Minnesota portions. Which would seem to imply that something could be designed which would satisfy Montana for a lot less money.
 
Either the SL or the Cardinal if our requirement is LDs. However, if I can pick a corridor to axe...Hoosier State, if that counts; if that's insufficient, then I'd probably go for either the NHV-SPG Shuttle (second-worst CR in the system), the Ethan Allen, or the Heartland Flyer.
 
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