Jointed Rail Mainlines

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S

Shawn

Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
214
Location
Tacoma, WA
So, it would seem jointed rail on a mainline would just about be unheard of today, but after about 50% of my circle the country tour, it is apparent it's not....so, where is mainline jointed rail that you know of, used by Amtrak , of course...

1) BNSF near the MT/ND border, about 100 miles worth and ROUGH - Empire Builder

2) BNSF near Glenview, IL - Empire Builder

3) UP for many many miles in MO and AR - on the Texas Eagle
 
Shawn said:
So, it would seem jointed rail on a mainline would just about be unheard of today, but after about 50% of my circle the country tour, it is apparent it's not....so, where is mainline jointed rail that you know of, used by Amtrak , of course...
1) BNSF near the MT/ND border, about 100 miles worth and ROUGH - Empire Builder

2) BNSF near Glenview, IL - Empire Builder

3) UP for many many miles in MO and AR - on the Texas Eagle
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Not sure, but the Southwest Chief track across Kansas at night leaves a lot to be desired.
 
The NECR, which the Vermonter travels on north of Palmer, MA. While I can't say this for certain, I'd imagine the VRS from Whitehall, NY to Rutland, VT is also. But those are short lines, so its sort of a different story.

I recently took my mom on the Vermonter and was explaining the difference between welded rail and jointed track. She was convinced that when she took the Pennsylvanian earlier this year, they ran into sizable stretches of jointed track after Harrisburg (heading to Pittsburgh). I don't really remember this when I took it, but she was very insistent.
 
The only joined rail I recall West of Harrisburg is right as you enter the Pittsburgh Station. perhaps she was seated at the very end of the car making the ride more bouncy. Either that or there's an outside track with jointed rail still extant that they were shunted onto for a stretch.

It probably wouldn't qualify as "mainline," but Amtrak runs on jointed rail on the Cardinal in the Charlottesville vicinity as it traverses the Buckingham Branch Railroad. Length is about 40-50 miles IIRC.
 
I took the Pennsylvanian out to Pittsburgh in October. It was smooth welded rail the whole way. I was actually impressed by how well maintained the former PRR mainline is.

There's quite a bit of jointed rail in New York north of Saratoga Springs.
 
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i have personally experienced that awful stretch between little rock and st. louis (which happens to be when you're trying to sleep). now i'm glad to know what the root cause was!
 
I don't no for sure, but based on ride quality, I would guess most of Central Florida... and most CSX lines in general for that matter!
 
Shotgun7 said:
I don't know for sure, but based on ride quality, I would guess most of Central Florida...
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No argument with you regarding ride quality in general on the Amtrak trains at speeds over 60mph in Central Fl. But almost all of CSX mainline trackage South of Jacksonville is continuous welded rail. Now sidings, yard, industry leads, etc are a different story.

Both main tracks between Beaver St and St Johns (in JAX area on the A-line) were jointed rail for the longest time though I think it is just a small portion of the #2 main track these days.

Track #1 on the A-line between North end double track WPK and South end double track ORL is still jointed rail, but the trains are traveling roughly thirty miles per hour max in this section.

The main track between TN crossover (A-line in TPA where Clearwater Sub and Tampa Terminal Sub cross) in Ybor City and the trolley crossing is still jointed rail. You'll notice it more (they'll be traveling faster) when the train is pulling out of TPA rather than when backing into TPA.

On the S-line in between Wildwood and Coleman (where the Palmetto used to run now replaced with a bus service), track #2 is still jointed rail and a passenger train can operate at maximum authorized speed of 79mph on that section as well. You really notice it here!

I am not sure, but there was still one small section of jointed rail on the S-line between United and Dyer (between WPB and St Lucie Canal drawbridge), and a passenger train could operate at max authorized speed of 79mph. That section used to be really , really bad! I think this little CSX portion has been replaced with welded rail now. It used to be jointed rail from United all the way into WPB depot, but the state changed their portion to continuous welded rail after they bought it.

Shotgun7 said:
and most CSX lines in general for that matter!
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Pretty much after you get North of Savannah on the A-line, almost all of the long sidings (which would be classified as double track) are still jointed rail almost all the way between there and Collier Yard (South of PTB in VA) with the exception of around FLO itself.

On the S-line North of SAV(Silver Star's route between SAV and RGH), there is a section of jointed rail on the Columbia Sub between Fairfax, SC and DNK. The Star operates at max authorized speed of 79mph over it.

Between Norway, SC and Cayce Yard in CLB there are multiple sections of jointed rail. There are a lot of curves with speed restrictions here but the max authorized passenger speed is 60mph I think.

And finally on the Aberdeen Sub between around Aberdeen, NC and Sanford, NC there is a really long stretch of jointed rail. The max authorized passenger speed is 60mph over this, but there are speed restrictions for curves and town ordinances.

Outside of those areas I am not qualified (actually my Carolina qualifications have expired now since it has been over a year), so I do not know the details of the rest of CSX.

OBS gone freight...
 
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Like many folks, I actually love the sound of jointed rail! It really sounds cool up in the cab of a six axle locomotive, but it usually bounces us around more the continuous welded rail does for obvious reasons.

OBS gone freight...
 
Amtrak OBS Gone Freight said:
I actually love the sound of jointed rail!
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Me too, and don't forget the feel. On the SWC eastbound run up to Raton last summer the train was running at good speed on obviously well-maintained stick track. I ran downstairs (Superliner) to enjoy the experience closer to track level. Clickety-clack my patoot; more like a high-powered drum solo. Wow.
 
I was on the Silver Star last March. The ride from Jacksonville to Orlando was very rough, particularly about 20 minutes out of Jax. If I remember correctly, we experienced the same rough ride in the same place the year before last as well.
 
the_traveler said:
rnizlek said:
The NECR, which the Vermonter travels on north of Palmer, MA.
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When was that? :huh: AFAIK, the Vermonter has not traveled through Palmer for years - not since it ran thru NLC. Now it goes thru HFD and SPG and does not go anywhere near Palmer. But I could be wrong.
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The Vermonter goes through Palmer everyday, actually. It does not accept or discharge passengers in Palmer, but it certainly stops there, as that's where the NECR and CSX intersect. It takes CSX east from Springfield to Palmer, then reverses direction and heads up the NECR. It takes about 5-10 minutes for this move to occur, and then the train heads off "backwards." As a result of this, the Vermonter always has a P42 on each end north of New Haven (they used to have cab control cars, but no more, I think they were reassigned to the Keystone service). This also kills the most time of the whole trip and it takes almost an hour to get between Springfield and Amherst.
 
Most railroad companies switched from jointed to welded rail for renewal projects in the 1960s, Since rail usually is replaced only when it wears to minimum standards, those most-used track (by freight trains, mostly) is what is now laid with welded rail.

So when you encounter clickety-clack today, it usually means that there has been relatively little freight traffic on that particular track for many years. Over some stretches like St. Louis-Poplar Bluff, the railroad's owner would rather be rid of the line for its little need for freight traffic. They are not about to go to the expense of replacing the rail. In this and other cases, speed restrictions tend to accumulate, too.
 
Southern Railway began installing welded raill for all new rail replacements somewhere around 1953. Likewise for Central of Georgia, which at that time was not controlled by Southern. Most other Southern District railroads made the commitment to go to CWR by no later than 1960. The last major railroad to decide to go to welded rail was Union Pacific in something like 1967 or 1969. However, when you have something that will last between 40 and 100 years in track depending upon traffic and metallugical problems, it takes a long time to see major changes in rail. Generally, when jointed rail is removed from track, the ends are cut off behind the last bolt hole and the stuff then welded up into strings of welded rail and put back in track, usually, but not always in a lighter trafficed main.

To give a picture of the life of rail, when Southern made the decision to go to all CWR for rail installations, they esitmated that it would take 40 years to get all main tracks in their system into CWR, and that was including the jointed rail welded up and relaid, not just installations of new rail.
 
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rnizlek said:
the_traveler said:
rnizlek said:
The NECR, which the Vermonter travels on north of Palmer, MA.
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When was that? :huh: AFAIK, the Vermonter has not traveled through Palmer for years - not since it ran thru NLC. Now it goes thru HFD and SPG and does not go anywhere near Palmer. But I could be wrong.
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The Vermonter goes through Palmer everyday, actually. It does not accept or discharge passengers in Palmer, but it certainly stops there, as that's where the NECR and CSX intersect. It takes CSX east from Springfield to Palmer, then reverses direction and heads up the NECR. It takes about 5-10 minutes for this move to occur, and then the train heads off "backwards." As a result of this, the Vermonter always has a P42 on each end north of New Haven (they used to have cab control cars, but no more, I think they were reassigned to the Keystone service). This also kills the most time of the whole trip and it takes almost an hour to get between Springfield and Amherst.
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I stand corrected! I knew it went to Springfield and Amherst, and I knew that Palmer was well out of the way, but I didn't know of the reverse move.
 
Did I read somewhere that a one crew can replace only 2 miles of joined rail per day? maybe we need to Suggest this to the new president to put people to work replacing our jointed rail. (It might cause a shortage of equipment)
 
wrjensen said:
Did I read somewhere that a one crew can replace only 2 miles of joined rail per day?
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ONLY ? ? ?That is a pretty good rate. Unsed to be that anything over a mile was considered really good production.

Back when ICRR, Milwaukee, Santa Fe all had goodly lengths of track allowing 100 mph for passenger trains, that was ALL being done on jointed rail.
 
The NECR does have some welded rail in there. There isn't much but some does exist. IIRC most of it is in the West River-Claremont area.
 
The CN/IC track that the City of New Orleans uses between Jackson, MS and Memphis, TN is mostly jointed rail. This is the Yazoo Sub that runs through Yazoo City and Greenwood. Most freight on the CN/IC uses the Grenada Sub (welded rail) between Jackson and Memphis.
 
battalion51 said:
The NECR does have some welded rail in there. There isn't much but some does exist. IIRC most of it is in the West River-Claremont area.
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You're indeed correct. I assume you mean White River. There is some in that area, and some south of Claremont. But it's pretty sparse. What I don't know a lot about is the signaling on the line. I know its partly signaled, but I'm not exactly sure what parts.
 
trainman668 said:
The CN/IC track that the City of New Orleans uses between Jackson, MS and Memphis, TN is mostly jointed rail. This is the Yazoo Sub that runs through Yazoo City and Greenwood. Most freight on the CN/IC uses the Grenada Sub (welded rail) between Jackson and Memphis.
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????

The Grenada District, unless something has changed very recently is now little more streak of rust in the weeds. Such sidings as there are on the Grenada District are all short. At the time I last looked at any part of it, the line was mostly in very old and worn 112 lb jointed rail.

All traffic is on the Yazoo Sub, both freight and passenger. It is mostly if not all welded rail, and has been fior quite a few years. It could be that there is by now some battering of the weld areas, which will happen quite often due to changes in hardness in the heat affected zone from the weld.

The Grenada District was the traditional passenger line because it was shorter and had fewer curves. However, the City of New Orleans was moved off it a few years ago due to deteriorating track conditions.

The Yazoo District was the traditional freight route becuase it was almost dead flat. Up until shortly before the closure of the Grenada District as a through route, the Yazoo district had no signals and was a 49 mph railroad.
 
rnizlek said:
battalion51 said:
The NECR does have some welded rail in there. There isn't much but some does exist. IIRC most of it is in the West River-Claremont area.
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You're indeed correct. I assume you mean White River. There is some in that area, and some south of Claremont. But it's pretty sparse. What I don't know a lot about is the signaling on the line. I know its partly signaled, but I'm not exactly sure what parts.
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No, by West River I meant West River. West River is just north of the Brattleboro station. The CTC runs til Windsor where it switches over to ABS & TWC. This is the beginning of the Roxbury Sub, and a Track Warrant is needed north of there. The ABS runs until the South Siding Switch at White River.
 

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