Long Distance Business Class -- A practical idea?

[jis]

Well, of course Amtrak can play whatever games it wants with the revenue. But at the base level, a bunch of revenue which would be absent if the said car is not running, should rightfully be counted as revenue generated by that car, no? Or is Amtrak so dishonest or inept in its accounting that they can't even allocate where the revenue came from correctly? Note that I am not talking about F&B account vs. passenger revenue account. I am talking of revenue generate by a car in any and all accounts.

Of course, with Amtrak, I suppose anything is possible.

 

[fairviewroad]

From the Amtrak's Coast Starlight group on Facebook:

The business-class passenger would have access to the Pacific Parlour Car, ...

This in itself would be a big selling point. I've made several day trips on the CSL and always spring for a roomette because of the parlour car. This would make more sense to me.

I tell ya, thee ONLY reason I have used the roomette option on LAX to anywhere-in-the-bay-area-including-SAC, is to have access to the PPC.

These two comments would suggest that one possibility of adding a BC on the Starlight would be a net LOSS in revenue. If someone books a BC seat instead of a daytime roomette, then presumably they are paying less money to Amtrak. IF that roomette is then filled by someone else, then it's a net gain. But if it stays empty, then it's a net loss. Of course, that loss could be offset by people upgrading to BC who otherwise would have stayed in coach. And then, of course, you have the factor of additional people using the PPC, which would diminish its relative value and would potentially drive some premium passengers away.

Presumably Amtrak is taking all that into account when deciding whether the projected numbers add up.

 

[jis]

Each time I have traveled on the CS, it is not like the PPC was overwhelmed. Actually it was rather sparsely populated and seemed like it could do with a somewhat larger clientele anyway.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The only times I've seen the PPC crowded was when a group, including AUers (LOL) was aboard and on Summer and Holiday weekends!

Normally its easy to get Meal Reservations to eat in the PPC, but last October on the way to the Gathering a Group booked all of the slots, so we had to have Lunch and Dinner in the Diner!

As for the Business Class seats, I would be a customer for this class of service ( wonder how/if AGR will book this?) if riding between LAX and the Bay area, but if going farther would book a roomette!

 

[rubber duck]

Why not just redesign whole train--- 1st class, business class, family class(bawling ,screaming kids) pet class and on and on and on?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Per The Railway Gazette:

CAF is building new cars for the Caledonian SleeperTrains.

"The order covers four 16-coach rakes each comprising five types of coach, plus 11 spare vehicles. Future operator Serco says the cars will provide a mixture of travel options including first class en-suite berths, standard berths, cradle seats for standard class guests and pod flat-beds for affordable comfort. There will also be a luxurious new brasserie club car, and improved accessibility. Edinburgh-based designer Ian Smith is responsible for creating a contemporary style for the coaches."

No pictures yet. I look forward to see what a pod sleeping space look like.

 

[neroden]

Interesting. I'll tell you what's more interesting: the retrofit was done at LA shops. I would have expected this sort of thing to be done at Beech Grove.

I'm honestly not that surprised. The cars that were converted were the former "kiddie car" coaches that were captive to Los Angeles... and the Los Angeles yards are VERY protective of the equipment used on the Starlight.

I'm sure they are capable of doing work like this (just swapping out seats) and they would rather do it in house than send it to Beech Grove where the work is subject to the delays that often seem to come with Beech Grove.

This statement amplifies on how interesting this is. It is a further indication that Beech Grove kind of sucks. I've seen a lot of evidence of that in the monthly reports: Bear and Wilmington both get stuff done ahead of schedule, LA, Albany and Chicago tend to meet schedule, Beech Grove is always behind. And it doesn't seem to be because Beech Grove has harder work: Bear and Wilmington get some ridiculous assignments.

I'm not sure Beech Grove is as essential as everyone thinks it is. I guess it would be expensive to move the equipment.

 

[fairviewroad]

I would be a customer for this class of service ( wonder how/if AGR will book this?) if riding between LAX and the Bay area

Shouldn't be an issue. AGR already has a one zone BC award. It can currently be redeemed on The Palmetto and The Carolinian.

I believe all other BC service exists only in the Northeast Zone or on Special Routes.

 

[Big Iron]

Would an overnight BC create a possible "lounge lizard" situation in the PPC?

 

[chakk]

Airlines charge a lot more than double the coach fare for a lie-flat seat in Business Class. Wouldn't Amtrak do the same?

 

[chakk]

Not only lounge lizard situation, but does the PPC attendant have to check credentials of every person sauntering forward from the coaches to confirm their right-of-entry to the PPC?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Not only lounge lizard situation, but does the PPC attendant have to check credentials of every person sauntering forward from the coaches to confirm their right-of-entry to the PPC?

Won't the Biz Class seats be downstairs where the theater is in the PPC or will they be where the Kiddie Arcade used to be in a Coach???

 

[Big Iron]

Airlines charge a lot more than double the coach fare for a lie-flat seat in Business Class. Wouldn't Amtrak do the same?

I haven't gone back and read the entire thread so shame on me. I was thinking the biz class seats would be coach type seats and not lie flat seats thus encouraging some to go upstairs and lounge lizard.

 

[g]

Though I never use it, I'd hate to see the Theater go.

 

[afigg]

Won't the Biz Class seats be downstairs where the theater is in the PPC or will they be where the Kiddie Arcade used to be in a Coach???

The 12 new business class seats will be in the now former Arcade space on the lower level of a coach car. The BC seats are Acela seats, so they won't be lie-flat seats. Should not be that difficult for the PPC attendant to check for BC eTickets for a total of 12 people coming from the coach cars.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Thanks for the info on where the Biz Class seats will be located!

Acela seats aren't that comfortable compared to the Metroliner type seats that are used in the BC Cars that have 2x1 Seating!

I'm surprised Amtrak wouldn't use these! Also that they won't be placed downstairs in the theater space on the PPC so BC Pax would have easier access to the PPC!!

 

[afigg]

Thanks for the info on where the Biz Class seats will be located!

Acela seats aren't that comfortable compared to the Metroliner type seats that are used in the BC Cars that have 2x1 Seating!

I'm surprised Amtrak wouldn't use these! Also that they won't be placed downstairs in the theater space on the PPC so BC Pax would have easier access to the PPC!!

I may be wrong about them installing Acela seats. I checked the Trains Magazine article which discussed the BC seats on the CS and it does not say what type of seats they installed. If the market is to premium class seats, 2x1 seating using extra Metroliner style seats or even Acela FC seats would be a better pick for the market.

 

[winterskigirl]

You might get your wish when the Pacific Parlour Car comes back in service from maintenance.

 

[jnismith]

As someone who looks to travel business class when on a long haul flight (at the least cost possible or using miles), the issue to me is can I sleep. And the answer is, only in a lie flat seat when I have the width to turn over. This pretty much means a space of at least 6ft by 2ft. (United take note). I don't really care about anything else, e.g., aisle or window, food. But on a train trip, it's a little bit more difficult. If I was just going from New York to Chicago, and it was mid-winter so not much to see, then stack me up, give me a space to lie down and I don't care about anything else. But if I am going somewhere which is going to take 24 hours, then I want a view, a shower, and really a bit of privacy.

So to me, there are different solutions for different types of long distance trains and certainly, I can't see much advantage to a business class seat on the long distance westbound trains out of Chicago. For the LSL and Capitol, maybe, but it you can get a roomette for $250 on the Capitol, then there is not too much of a gap between that and coach, so I'm not sure if there is a need for a third tier of service.