New Talgos moving westward for testing

[Henry Kisor]

No wonder the Milwaukee Southern ran that engine long hood forward.

Just so you know, it's the Wisconsin & Southern Railroad in Milwaukee.

Right. Correction appreciated. Serves me right for living in Illinois.

 

[PerRock]

And oh, those flashing red lights and bells are mere decorations according to people of this town right? At least a dozen cars crossed the tracks after the lights and bells turned on.. what the heck!

I didn't wanna say anything in case it was deemed to be out of topic, but yes, the first thing noticable here is one car after another breaking the law of heeding to a red light. Flashing lights, bells, and the locomotive horn all in tandem. This is why crashes like the kind in Orlando a couple of days ago happen.

Edit for the following addtion: I count nineteen vehicles in the YouTube clip, driving over the tracks in front of the train. In fact, if you closely pay attention to the black jeep going from the camera's right to left, across the street, it slows almost to a stop, then clearly makes an obvious speed up in which we hear for a second the screech of rubber tires, just as the driver has decided '...f**k it, i can make it across by stepping on the gas..'.

I hope this footage is admissable in all the courts where train/vehicle crashes will be litigated, so that the judge and jury can see the folly of this phenomenon.

Not everywhere is that the law. In Iowa you are legally allowed to cross a railroad crossing with it's lights & bell going until the train is to close for it to be safe. You are not allowed to drive around down gates.

peter

 

[WICT106]

What route will they take all the way to Oregon? I assume that they are going to PDX. At least this is more service for the Cascades, a good alternative to those poorly built Greyhound G4500s.

They'll take the route through Pueblo, Colorado; which is where they're headed for testing as noted in opening post. Colorado that is, not the testing part.

I know that, I mean which line? If it's BNSF then I assume the ex-Burlington Route line to DEN then south to Pueblo?

The route the train took between Milwaukee and Prairie du Chien, WI, went through Madison! It passed just a couple of blocks from my house. This was a sight to see after work on Friday. The route actually followed the first train tracks that were laid down in WI, through Whitewater, Milton, Madison, then along the WI River, then Prairie du Chien. I went looking for the train in PdC yesterday, only to find that the interchange between WSOR & BN is closed off from the public. As it was, internet rumors indicated that the train departed PdC at 7 pm yesterday, where BN sent it south to Ft. Madison, IA. Once at Ft. Madison, IA, the train will be routed west to CO.

 

[railiner]

What route will they take all the way to Oregon? I assume that they are going to PDX. At least this is more service for the Cascades, a good alternative to those poorly built Greyhound G4500s.

They'll take the route through Pueblo, Colorado; which is where they're headed for testing as noted in opening post. Colorado that is, not the testing part.

I know that, I mean which line? If it's BNSF then I assume the ex-Burlington Route line to DEN then south to Pueblo?

The route the train took between Milwaukee and Prairie du Chien, WI, went through Madison! It passed just a couple of blocks from my house. This was a sight to see after work on Friday. The route actually followed the first train tracks that were laid down in WI, through Whitewater, Milton, Madison, then along the WI River, then Prairie du Chien. I went looking for the train in PdC yesterday, only to find that the interchange between WSOR & BN is closed off from the public. As it was, internet rumors indicated that the train departed PdC at 7 pm yesterday, where BN sent it south to Ft. Madison, IA. Once at Ft. Madison, IA, the train will be routed west to CO.

Makes sense. Send it on the less busy with freight train Chief route to LaJunta, then on to the test center, short of Pueblo. Wonder if there are any (lucky to me), Amtrak tech riders on board, accompanying the equipment?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What route will they take all the way to Oregon? I assume that they are going to PDX. At least this is more service for the Cascades, a good alternative to those poorly built Greyhound G4500s.

They'll take the route through Pueblo, Colorado; which is where they're headed for testing as noted in opening post. Colorado that is, not the testing part.

I know that, I mean which line? If it's BNSF then I assume the ex-Burlington Route line to DEN then south to Pueblo?

The route the train took between Milwaukee and Prairie du Chien, WI, went through Madison! It passed just a couple of blocks from my house. This was a sight to see after work on Friday. The route actually followed the first train tracks that were laid down in WI, through Whitewater, Milton, Madison, then along the WI River, then Prairie du Chien. I went looking for the train in PdC yesterday, only to find that the interchange between WSOR & BN is closed off from the public. As it was, internet rumors indicated that the train departed PdC at 7 pm yesterday, where BN sent it south to Ft. Madison, IA. Once at Ft. Madison, IA, the train will be routed west to CO.

All right, so it took another railroad to Fort Madison then the ex-ATSF to Pueblo instead of the ex-Burlington.

 

[jmx53]

A few photos of the move were posted on Train Orders in this thread:

http://www.trainorde...d.php?1,2932764

I sure wouldn't want to be in that cab car during a collision with a truck!

 

[Ryan]

Supposedly, it was designed for safety, not for looks.

I sure hope so, because it certainly isn't good looking!

 

[Ozark Southern]

Well, I'm glad they have a good home. They will be well used in the Northwest. It's still sad that the Midwest can't seem to have anything nice. Still, I am looking forward to the new rail cars when they arrive in a couple of years. The Horizons really are starting to look their age. I'm willing to travel anywhere Amtrak goes, no matter what the equipment; rail travel to me is just inherently far superior to other methods. Others, however, are going to see the torn upholstery and broken tray tables and be turned off (not that I haven't been on many a plane in similar condition...).

 

[fairviewroad]

Nope; not an engine. The Talgo trains were built without engines. Motive power will be provided by P42's and F59's.

So these trainsets will operate with a "normal" engine at one end, and the new-design cab car at the other end? Meaning

that sometimes the cab-car will simply be a functionless trailing unit when the train is going in the "other" direction? Or will it

provide HEP while trailing?

 

[AlanB]

Nope; not an engine. The Talgo trains were built without engines. Motive power will be provided by P42's and F59's.

So these trainsets will operate with a "normal" engine at one end, and the new-design cab car at the other end? Meaning

that sometimes the cab-car will simply be a functionless trailing unit when the train is going in the "other" direction? Or will it

provide HEP while trailing?

I honestly have no idea. Sorry!

 

[PerRock]

I believe based on the currently used cars, that the Power/Cab car provides HEP regardless id the train is in push or pull.

peter

 

[cirdan]

I was wondering about something. I know the talgos sorta make that air whistling noise, is that the tilt or leveling mechanism working?

The tilt mechanism is passive. I'm not sure what noise you mean but it could be the air suspension.

 

[jmx53]

Regarding the new cab car design (& putting design aesthetics aside) I was thinking about the safety for the engineer in the event of a grade crossing accident using the example of a gravel truck (the engineer with that huge expanse of windshield sitting low compared to the engineer's height in a locomotive & a gravel load is carried high on the truck's center of gravity) so I sent an Email to the Oregon Dept. of Transportation Rail Division which is the owner of these 2 new series 8 Talgo trainsets asking about it.

I also gave them the link to the video provided by Blackwolf in post #5 and asked if the machinery noise that can be heard at 1:48 in the video was a HEP generator.

They replied:

"On safety: The Federal Railroad Administration has strict requirements for cab safety. Our new trains are designed and manufactured in conformance with current FRA crash-worthiness standards. Those standards seek to protect control cab occupants from injury in the unlikely event of collisions with other trains or railroad equipment. That said, the increasing size and weight of highway trucks is of national concern to railroads with respect to incidents at grade crossings. The “hardening” of the front ends of locomotives and cab cars will afford additional protection to train operators in the event of collision with motor vehicles of all sizes but predicting how one of our new cab cars might fare in an impact with a gravel truck or any other vehicle is impossible to know because there are so many variables.

The concept of a cab car that is integral to the trainset, rather than external as is now the case with the five existing Talgo trains serving the corridor, presents Amtrak with an operational decision. Today, if a cab car is damaged in a grade crossing incident, it is replaced by another cab car or a locomotive and the trainset remains in service. With the new trains, if an integral cab car is damaged, the entire trainset will be sidelined until repairs are made, as there are no spare built-in cab cars. Because of this risk factor, Amtrak is considering using external cab cars on the new trains in revenue service, just like on the older trains. Thus, when in revenue service, the integral cab cars may be preceded by one of the converted F40s you’re used to seeing today.

On noise in the video: Yes, the cab car is equipped with an HEP generator but the older Talgo 6 trains also have HEP generators. And HEP also is furnished by the Amtrak locomotive handling the train."

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Those Wisconsin cab cars don't look good, but they better be safe. I think that the shovel nose is desigined to absorb some impact in the event of a collision.

 

[cirdan]

You know what I just realized? The baggage car on the rear of the consist is one of the 40th Anniversary museum cars now re-purposed for this task. Makes sense to me, though you wonder why the rest of them could not be used for this, instead of those revenue Cafe cars?

It's not a museum car. It's a buffer car.

Their normal purpose is to operate as a "buffer" between single-level cars and Superliners when shuttling for maintenance purposes (either to Beech Grove, or to Brighton Park), since those cars can't be coupled directly to each other.

There are two such cars that I know of, 10404 and 10405. They just haven't managed to see a paint booth in the last 15 or so years.

Interesting.

I didn't know there were incompatible couplings.

Why didn't they make them compatible?

Aren't both types of car pulled by the same locomotives? And what about when private varnish is attached?

How do they handle that?

 

[Ryan]

The couplings are compatible, but the diaphragms get all screwed up because they are at different heights. Baggage cars (and most PVs, I imagine) have shorter diaphragms that won't rub and get messed up.

 

[cirdan]

The couplings are compatible, but the diaphragms get all screwed up because they are at different heights. Baggage cars (and most PVs, I imagine) have shorter diaphragms that won't rub and get messed up.

thanks, makes semse

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

I was wondering about something. I know the talgos sorta make that air whistling noise, is that the tilt or leveling mechanism working?

The tilt mechanism is passive. I'm not sure what noise you mean but it could be the air suspension.

Its probably the air suspension then, thanks for the reply cirdan.

 

[jis]

I was wondering about something. I know the talgos sorta make that air whistling noise, is that the tilt or leveling mechanism working?

The only noise from the Talgo's passive tilt system which is entirely driven by gravity and centrifugal force is occasional creaking noise from the mechanical linkages. There are no motors etc. to do the tilting so no whining or any other such noise as found in Acelas.

Incidentally the active tilt system in the Virgin Pendolinos in the UK do not have the whining and clanking sounds of the Acelas, and they also tilt way way more than the Acelas since the Brits, unlike the FRA allows much higher cant deficiency or underbalance (depending on which terminology one is using). They feel a lot more like roller coasters on the one hand, but the tilt mechanism is smoother than on the Acelas, so even when they are tilting around a sharper curve at 125mph, it does not feel too bad standing up.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Thank you jis, I appreciate the knowledge.

 

[fairviewroad]

Oregon Dept. of Transportation Rail Division wrote:

"With the new trains, if an integral cab car is damaged, the entire trainset will be sidelined until repairs are made, as there are no spare built-in cab cars. Because of this risk factor, Amtrak is considering using external cab cars on the new trains in revenue service, just like on the older trains. Thus, when in revenue service, the integral cab cars may be preceded by one of the converted F40s you’re used to seeing today."

Wait....WHAT? So they're saying the cab car is basically a piece of equipment that might NEVER be used for its intended purpose, i.e. leading a train? I mean, what

would be the point of even having it in the consist if it's just going to preceeded by an F40?

 

[cirdan]

Oregon Dept. of Transportation Rail Division wrote:

"With the new trains, if an integral cab car is damaged, the entire trainset will be sidelined until repairs are made, as there are no spare built-in cab cars. Because of this risk factor, Amtrak is considering using external cab cars on the new trains in revenue service, just like on the older trains. Thus, when in revenue service, the integral cab cars may be preceded by one of the converted F40s you’re used to seeing today."

Wait....WHAT? So they're saying the cab car is basically a piece of equipment that might NEVER be used for its intended purpose, i.e. leading a train? I mean, what

would be the point of even having it in the consist if it's just going to preceeded by an F40?

The Spanish talgos, or at least some of them, have a mini cab at the end. It isn't used for actual line running, but when moving the consists around in yards somebody can sit there and communicate with the locomotive by radio. The mini cab does however have a brake valve so he can stop the train in an emergency.

 

[fairviewroad]

The Spanish talgos, or at least some of them, have a mini cab at the end. It isn't used for actual line running, but when moving the consists around in yards somebody can sit there and communicate with the locomotive by radio.

That may be true, but it sounds to me like the original intent in Oregon was to operate the cab cars in revenue service, and that they are changing

their mind.

 

[Guest]

...it sounds to me like the original intent in Oregon was to operate the cab cars in revenue service...

I thought that as well, and I would suppose that the integral cab car actually has a full set of operating controls so it can be used for normal running. In the Email I got from ODOT it sounds like the decision to use a separate cab car is being made by Amtrak which will operate these trains even though Oregon owns them.

Personally I would much prefer to see an F40 cab car on point in push mode than the integral cab car, both for safety and aesthetics, but it may be a good thing to have the integral cab car just in case the F40 needs repairs and there are no other locos available.

 

[VentureForth]

We need DMUs.