Northeast Regional discussion

[Literalman]

My wife doesn't look out the window much but strongly prefers facing forward. Even on short trolley rides, if we have to face backwards, she wants to change seats as soon as a forward-facing seat opens up. I prefer facing forward. When I commuted on VRE, however, I liked facing backwards because the seats are not fabric covered, and while the trains never accelerated fast enough to make me slide off, the deceleration could make me slide on the seat if I was asleep.

 

[daybeers]

Amtrak has an alert on their website effective 3/2/24.

New Seating Arrangement Introduced on all Northeast Regional and Select East Coast Routes ​

Effective March 2, 2024
Beginning on March 2, Amtrak will transition to a fixed forward and backward facing seating arrangement in Coach class (beginning March 4 for Business Class) on Northeast Regional and select routes on the East Coast (Carolinian, Empire Services, Vermonter and Virginia Services).
This new seating arrangement provides customers with more daily departures by reducing maintenance time required between trips. Fixed seating already exists on several routes throughout the National Network. Customers traveling in Business Class will be able to see the direction in which their seat faces when viewing or changing their seat on Amtrak.com or the Amtrak app. Choosing forward facing seats is subject to availability.

 

[MARC Rider]

This my version of the Amtrak seat map that shows the windows more clearly. It assumes the break between the seat directions will be Row 8-9. View attachment 35902

They switch the seating directions between rows 8 and 9, and have the seats facing away from each other. This means that recline is restricted for the seats in rows 8 and 9. They would be better to have the seats in rows 8 and 9 face each other so that all seats in the car would have full recline.

 

[MARC Rider]

I suppose this means that business class and the Quiet Car will always be on the south end of the train, just like on the Acelas.

 

[Amtrak25]

I don't see how this helps the Empire corridor turn trains around quicker. There is no push-pull. They all Loop through Sunnyside and get wyed in upstate NY and Canadian terminals. I don't see them uncoupling the engine, turning just it, attaching it to the opposite end of the train, and messing with all the cables and hoses. Do they swap its equipment with NEC trains very much ? Rensselaer maintains their own allotment of Amfleet-I cars. Adirondack consist does not resemble anything else.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I don't see how this helps the Empire corridor turn trains around quicker. There is no push-pull. They all Loop through Sunnyside and get wyed in upstate NY and Canadian terminals. I don't see them uncoupling the engine, turning just it, attaching it to the opposite end of the train, and messing with all the cables and hoses. Do they swap its equipment with NEC trains very much ? Rensselaer maintains their own allotment of Amfleet-I cars. Adirondack consist does not resemble anything else.

Do the Empire Service use Amfleet 1’s? If yes, then those cars are interchangeable with the NEC trains

 

[Amtrak25]

"Interchangeable" is quite a different matter than daily equipment cycles. As far as I know, it is not done a whole lot between the two services.

 

[MontanaJim]

I dont think many will like this:

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/new-se...TTTtViyp9ZR8j0zGNYLxeFcCb_aORmsNWiJnKPAjhRbZI

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I wonder what daily departures are being added? And of course, time isn't the issue, it doesn't have to take any time to turn seats, the real reason is they are probably able to eliminate a few hours of employee time.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Anyone wanting to know what the new trains are just do a test booking (WAS-NYP and NYP-WAS) for this week and then a test booking for next week. Just remember that Sat & Sun are different than M-F.
I know there’s new train stopping at Newark, DE on Sunday’s though I haven’t checked if the train has existed and they’re just adding NRK to its schedule.

 

[Trogdor]

I wonder what daily departures are being added? And of course, time isn't the issue, it doesn't have to take any time to turn seats, the real reason is they are probably able to eliminate a few hours of employee time.

It absolutely takes time to turn the seats. These aren’t modern Japanese trains where the seats can all turn simultaneously at the push of a button.

An employee must flip the seats, row by row, across 8 cars. In what world does that not take time?

 

[Amtrak25]

So in the NEC at BOS and WAS, what are they going to do now ? Cut off the lead engine on a stub track, hitch another at the rear end, and head back eventually, while the inbound engine is trapped at the bumper block until it pulls away, to be the next locomotive to pull another train away on another track ?

If so, cutting all the cables and hoses and reconnecting at the other end takes the time that they spent wying. All in all, I don't see the improvement.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

It absolutely takes time to turn the seats. These aren’t modern Japanese trains where the seats can all turn simultaneously at the push of a button.

An employee must flip the seats, row by row, across 8 cars. In what world does that not take time?

I meant it doesn't take time away from the equipment being able to be used. You can have a couple of employees turn seats in the time it takes to perform a terminal air brake test. The idea that not turning seats is the reason they can add departures is a crazy claim - that's my point.

 

[jis]

I meant it doesn't take time away from the equipment being able to be used. You can have a couple of employees turn seats in the time it takes to perform a terminal air brake test. The idea that not turning seats is the reason they can add departures is a crazy claim - that's my point.

I think their intention may be to lock the seats in place and then save on maintenance by not maintaining the mechanism that enables seats to be turned. Reduction in cost of maintenance. When NJT tried to remove the seat flipping feature in the cars that had it, they also proceeded to remove the turning levers. So I am guessing based on that.

 

[jis]

So in the NEC at BOS and WAS, what are they going to do now ? Cut off the lead engine on a stub track, hitch another at the rear end, and head back eventually, while the inbound engine is trapped at the bumper block until it pulls away, to be the next locomotive to pull another train away on another track ?

If so, cutting all the cables and hoses and reconnecting at the other end takes the time that they spent wying. All in all, I don't see the improvement.

They won't change anything operationally at this time. This is just to get the clientele used to the way things will be going forward as Airos are deployed. Just my random, perhaps even cynical, guess. And while at it they might disable the seat turning feature in the cars saving a few pennies on maintenance. Remember NJT?

 

[lordsigma]

I guess another benefit with getting all the Amfleet 1s in the same configuration it could save a little bit of time on swapping a car out if you are pulling from a pool where the trains normally run the other way (like the Hartford Line, Keystones, etc). Given the inevitability of this configuration eventually coming with the Airo sets I don't think there's much of a point making too much of a fuss about this. It's pretty much becoming the standard - this is how Brightline's equipment is as well. Might as well get people used to it.

 

[keelhauled]

So in the NEC at BOS and WAS, what are they going to do now ? Cut off the lead engine on a stub track, hitch another at the rear end, and head back eventually, while the inbound engine is trapped at the bumper block until it pulls away, to be the next locomotive to pull another train away on another track ?

If so, cutting all the cables and hoses and reconnecting at the other end takes the time that they spent wying. All in all, I don't see the improvement.

My uneducated prediction is you will see more cab cars and especially the ex-HHP-8 NPCUs on Regionals. No wyeing or locomotive swaps required. In any case it's going to happen regardless once the Amfleets are gone.

 

[jis]

I guess another benefit with getting all the Amfleet 1s in the same configuration it could save a little bit of time on swapping a car out if you are pulling from a pool where the trains normally run the other way (like the Hartford Line, Keystones, etc). Given the inevitability of this configuration eventually coming with the Airo sets I don't think there's much of a point making too much of a fuss about this. It's pretty much becoming the standard - this is how Brightline's equipment is as well. Might as well get people used to it.

One thing that is a head scratcher for me is why it is not possible to have seats that turn in the much vaunted First World countries when India is able to deploy turning seats with power plugs and USB plugs in seat armrests on the new Vande Bharat Express articulated sets. Is the Third World really becoming more technically capable than the First World as time marches on? I have difficulty believing that so I would tend to ascribe this to rank laziness and misplaced priorities.

 

[Amtrak25]

They won't change anything operationally at this time. This is just to get the clientele used to the way things will be going forward as Airos are deployed. Just my random, perhaps even cynical, guess. And while at it they might disable the seat turning feature in the cars saving a few pennies on maintenance. Remember NJT?

I don't know about the Arrows, but all 3 Comet species I have sat in have seats facing forward and they flip them. The little release lever is not there. An internal pendulum mechanism prevents the seat from being flipped during an emergency brake situation.

ESPA Facebook moderator says they are not doing this with Amfleet-2 used on the day trains (Palmetto, Pennsylvanian, Maple Leaf, Adirondack) due to leg rests.

 

[jis]

I don't know about the Arrows, but all 3 Comet species I have sat in have seats facing forward and they flip them. The little release lever is not there. An internal pendulum mechanism prevents the seat from being flipped during an emergency brake situation.

Ah, look like you have forgotten the arm wrestling we had with NJT to preserve seat turning when they tried to lock them in place many moons back.

ESPA Facebook moderator says they are not doing this with Amfleet-2 used on the day trains (Palmetto, Pennsylvanian, Maple Leaf, Adirondack) due to leg rests.

Why would they do it to Amfleet IIs? They are on loan from the LD pool, and will eventually return to be used on LD trains. It is only the Amfleet I Corridor pool that is being affected, and it is primarily to train the hamsters to not complain about it when Airos come with fixed seats - just my educated but possibly cynical, guess.

 

[lordsigma]

One thing that is a head scratcher for me is why it is not possible to have seats that turn in the much vaunted First World countries when India is able to deploy turning seats with power plugs and USB plugs in seat armrests on the new Vande Bharat Express articulated sets. Is the Third World really becoming more technically capable than the First World as time marches on? I have difficulty believing that so I would tend to ascribe this to rank laziness and misplaced priorities.

You know when you put it that way that is a good point that's hard to refute.

You know the one thing I just thought of - has anyone seen if they are doing the half each direction thing on the new Acela or are they going to be flipping seats like the current cars?

 

[jis]

You know the one thing I just thought of - has anyone seen if they are doing the half each direction thing on the new Acela or are they going to be flipping seats like the current cars?

I have not seen a real interior of a Acela II in a while, if ever. Would be interesting to find out.

 

[lordsigma]

And I just answered my own question with this photo.

 

[lordsigma]

One thing that is a head scratcher for me is why it is not possible to have seats that turn in the much vaunted First World countries when India is able to deploy turning seats with power plugs and USB plugs in seat armrests on the new Vande Bharat Express articulated sets.

Do the seats you're referring to allow the passenger to face the direction they'd like and turn them at will or is it just for the crew to turn them at turnaround points?

 

[jis]

Do the seats you're referring to allow the passenger to face the direction they'd like and turn them at will or is it just for the crew to turn them at turnaround points?

Passengers turn it whichever way they want. Actually on alternate rows you can even turn them facing the window. I am not sure that the crew actually turns them at all except at terminal stations. As it turns out, though no one really stops them from doing so, passengers do not turn seats too often except for when there is a group of four, or experiencing the novelty of sitting in a seat facing the window once in a while.

It is only in the 2x2 executive class where seats turn. In the 3x2 standard Chair Cars I am not sure that the 3 side seats turn. But I must admit I have not looked at them closely.