One Last One From 1976

[MrFSS]

In one of the 1976 tables there is a list of all the trains Amtrak had at that time. Thought you might like to reminisce and have a look.

 

[GG-1]

In one of the 1976 tables there is a list of all the trains Amtrak had at that time. Thought you might like to reminisce and have a look.

Mahalo

Thats when they wanted to run trains

Aloha

GG-1 Eric

 

[Guest]

I thought the national limited never actually ran?

And the turboliners in detroit??? Same name as the current equipment?

 

[jamesontheroad]

I thought the national limited never actually ran?

According to Wikipedia...

The National Limited was the premier train of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad (B&O) on its route between New York City and St. Louis, Missouri with major station stops in Washington, D.C. and Cincinnati, Ohio. The all-Pullman version of the National Limited was introduced by the B&O on April 26, 1925 as Trains #1 (westbound) and #2 (eastbound).[1] The B&O had previously operated through cars between New York and western points as the "National Limited" since December, 1916.
...

In 1967, the United States Post Office dealt a heavy blow to the B & O, cancelling most of its lucrative post office contracts. The train's route through West Virginia, southern Ohio and south-central Indiana and Illinois were, and continue to be, sparsely populated. Few cities or towns existed along the line that could contribute additional revenue or passengers to the train. Between Cincinnati and St. Louis, the B&O St. Louis line was single-tracked and it avoided most of the mid-west cities along the way. Branch lines ran to Louisville, Indianapolis, Springfield, IL, and other towns but the National Limited bypassed them all. This ultimately would seal the train's fate. The B&O's National Limited train had its final run on April 30, 1971, when B&O discontinued all long-haul passenger trains at the inception of Amtrak.

The "National Limited" name was subsequently used by Amtrak for a train from New York to Kansas City, Missouri, via Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Columbus, Ohio, Dayton, Ohio, Indianapolis, Indiana and St. Louis. This Amtrak train did not use the B&O route. It was cancelled on October 1, 1979.

 

[The Metropolitan]

What I find particularly interesting is the numbers/names of the LD trains. Howzabout a sequential review:

Number:   Was:										  Is:
1/2		   Sunset Limited							Sunset Limited
3/4		   Southwest Limited					   Southwest Chief
5/6		   San Francisco Zephyr				  California Zephyr
7/8		   Empire Builder							Empire Builder
9/10		 North Coast Hiawatha (CHI-SEA)  Deleted 
11/14	   Coast Starlight							Coast Starlight
15/16	   Lone Star (CHI-HOU)				   Deleted
19/20	   Not Yet Extant							 Crescent (AMTK ran SC as 171/172)
21/22	   Inter-American (STL-LAR)			Texas Eagle
29			Not Yet Extant							 Capitol Limited (WB)
30			National Limited (EB) (STL-NYP)	Capitol Limited (EB)
31			National Limited (WB) (NYP-STL)   Deleted
40/41	   Broadway Limited						Deleted (after running as the Three Rivers)
42/43	   Valley Forge (NYP-HAR)				Pennsylvanian
44			Not Yet Extant							  Pennsylvanian (Sunday)
48/49	   Lake Shore Limited					   Lake Shore Limited
50/51	   James Whitcomb Riley (WAS-CHI) Cardinal
52/53	   Not Yet Extant							  Auto-Train
54/55	   Not Yet Extant							  Vermonter
56			Floridian (St. Pete-CHI) (NB)		 Vermonter
57			Floridian (CHI-St. Pete) (SB)		 Deleted
58/59	   Panama Limited (CHI-NOL)			City of New Orleans
60/61	   Montrealer (MON-WAS)				 Deleted
63/64	   Niagara Rainbow (NYP-DET)		  Maple Leaf
66/67	   Night Owl									 "Regional"
68/69	   Adirondack								  Adirondack
73/74	   Water Level Express (NYP-BUF)	 Piedmont
79			Washington Irving (NYP-ALB)		Carolinian (SB)
80			Not Yet Extant							  Carolinian (NB)
81/82	   Silver Star (NYP-St.Pete)			  Not Used
83/84	   Silver Meteor (NYP-St. Pete)		 Not Used
87/88	   Champion (NYP-St. Pete)			  Deleted
89/90	   Palmetto (NYP-SAV)					 Palmetto
91/92	   Silver Star (NYP-MIA)				   Silver Star
93/94	   Floridian (CHI-MIA)					  Deleted
97/98	   Silver Meteor (NYP-MIA)			   Silver Meteor

All the current numbers are off the top of the head, so if I messed one up (and I know I missed the Ethan Allen Express, though I seem to recall it having a 300 number - them there are those Richmond Trains as well that use 90 numbers, like "95" and "99" and by the end I was too lazy to add them), don't scream too loudly!

Yeah, I know the alignment is messed up - too early in the morning for me to be replying to these sorts of things!

 

[wayman]

What I find particularly interesting is the numbers/names of the LD trains. Howzabout a sequential review:

Thanks! I was going to do just this at some point, and you saved me the effort :lol:

This gives rise to a question I've had for a while: what's wrong with numbers 12 and 13? I'd assumed the Coast Starlight's 11/14 numbers were an artifact of renumbering, but apparently this odd situation goes back nearly 30 years. Does looking back further to 1971 explain this?

Why did they slide 30/31 to 29/30? Not precisely the same route, to be sure, but it seems odd that they did this.

 

[PRR 60]

The National Limited was Amtrak's continued service of the PRR's Spirit of Saint Louis with the added twist of the extension to Kansas City. Another example was the Coast Starlight which, in the early 1970's, ran from Seattle to San Diego.

One interesting aspect of Amtrak's National Limited was the timed connection in Kansas City with the Super Chief / El Capitan (what is now the Southwest Chief). With that connection it was possible to travel between LA and New York via Kansas City and St. Louis rather than Chicago.

 

[MrFSS]

What I find particularly interesting is the numbers/names of the LD trains. Howzabout a sequential review:

Thanks! I was going to do just this at some point, and you saved me the effort :lol:

This gives rise to a question I've had for a while: what's wrong with numbers 12 and 13? I'd assumed the Coast Starlight's 11/14 numbers were an artifact of renumbering, but apparently this odd situation goes back nearly 30 years. Does looking back further to 1971 explain this?

Why did they slide 30/31 to 29/30? Not precisely the same route, to be sure, but it seems odd that they did this.

If you had a train with #13 many wouldn't ride it - unlucky, they think. Just as most hotels of height don't have a "13th" floor. They really do, it just isn't numbered 13.

 

[Steve4031]

The strange numbering of the Coast Starlight has to do with the SP railroad. SP numbered trains a certain way if they were going away from Oakland, and different way if they were going towards Oakland. This was in regards to the even and odd numbers. Since the Coast starlight goes THROUGH Oakland, they numbered it differently. A conductor explained this to me, but as you can see, I never really completely understood it.

 

[Trogdor]

Based on my vague memory of what I've read, the Starlight was numbered 11/12 in one direction (probably Southbound), and 13/14 in the other. I don't know when this was changed to just 11/14.

Amtrak did have a train 13 in recent years (probably eliminated 4 or 5 years ago). It was a mail-only train from Springfield, MA, to Washington, DC. If I had to make a WAG, I'd say it was Amtrak's only regularly scheduled freight-only train (no jokes about the Lake Country Limited, Kentucky Cardinal, or old Pennsylvanian, please).

 

[greatcats]

I rode the Amtrak National Limited in March, 1977. Too bad it still does not run, although I see it was cancelled in 1979. It had a through sleeper New York to Los Angeles, that was switched to what is now the Southwest Chief, which was still running with Santa Fe high levels. The low level 10 and 6 sleeper was placed next to a transition car so that the rest of the train was accessible. It was an OK trip at the time - I recall stopping at COlumbus, Ohio in the middle of the night with a crowd on the platform, stopping in places like Effingham Illinois in the middle of the day with a station agent on the platform, looking around the old St. Louis Union Station, which was huge with only a few tracks in use, and a nice layover with a good dinner on top of a nearby hotel in Kansas City.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Based on my vague memory of what I've read, the Starlight was numbered 11/12 in one direction (probably Southbound), and 13/14 in the other. I don't know when this was changed to just 11/14.

Espee's Cascade from Portland to Oakland was number 11&12. It was combined with Espee's Coast Daylight (#98 & 99) when The Coast Starlight from Seattle to San Diego was created by Amtrak on May 1, 1971. #11 was kept as the SB number, but the nb # was changed to 14. The Sunset Limited also retained the original Espee numbers of 1&2. Very few trains retained the fomer railroad numbers.

 

[jphjaxfl]

It had a through sleeper New York to Los Angeles, that was switched to what is now the Southwest Chief, which was still running with Santa Fe high levels The low level 10 and 6 sleeper was placed next to a transition car so that the rest of the train was accessibilet

.
Santa Fe did not have any high level sleeping cars, only coaches, diners and lounges which were built for the Chicago Los Angeles coach streamliner; The EL Capitain in 1957 (with some additional coaches built in 1964). In the off seasons Santa Fe combined the El Capitain with the all Pullman Super Chief using a transition car. The Super Chief carried a Dome Lounge Car and low level diner. Amtrak ran the Super Chief/El Capitain as a combinied train using the low level sleepers and high level coaches. For a while the seperate coach and sleeper diner and lounge facilities continued. The train became all high level in 1979 or 1980 when the Superliners arrived.