Overcrowding at CUS

[Everydaymatters]

The last several times I have been at CUS, the overcrowded conditions in the coach waiting room have been horrendous. Lines waiting to board trains are out the door. Even those sitting are finding it difficult to get seats where they can sit close to their travel companions. The one bathroom is inadequate for the number of people it serves. Those who know the locations for other washrooms throughout the station find long lines as well.

I would have thought this problem would be only a summer thing when families are taking vacations. However, I was at CUS in September, after school had started and at the end of April and it wasn't any better. Now we are approaching another summer travel season.

The fiasco last Christmas, which made National news, was exceptional for being outrageous. But even aside from that, being at CUS is just plain stressful.

This forum recently had a topic about how to change CUS to accommodate the passengers. It's time for Amtrak to take note and do something about it.

 

[Ispolkom]

The last several times I have been at CUS, the overcrowded conditions in the coach waiting room have been horrendous. Lines waiting to board trains are out the door. Even those sitting are finding it difficult to get seats where they can sit close to their travel companions. The one bathroom is inadequate for the number of people it serves. Those who know the locations for other washrooms throughout the station find long lines as well.

If only there was a large room, a "Great Hall" if you will, for people to wait in.

Using the Great Hall for occasional rental events (when we last went through it was set up for a fashion show) has to be one of the dumber ideas in Chicagoland.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

The last several times I have been at CUS, the overcrowded conditions in the coach waiting room have been horrendous. Lines waiting to board trains are out the door. Even those sitting are finding it difficult to get seats where they can sit close to their travel companions. The one bathroom is inadequate for the number of people it serves. Those who know the locations for other washrooms throughout the station find long lines as well.

If only there was a large room, a "Great Hall" if you will, for people to wait in.

Using the Great Hall for occasional rental events (when we last went through it was set up for a fashion show) has to be one of the dumber ideas in Chicagoland.

Agreed, I wish there was a way to see the events before hand because I really don't want to get to CUS only to see the great hall roped off.

 

[Longford]

Given the volume of people who move through the station - reportedly more than 17 million a year - I think passengers are reasonably accomodated. But, if some people want more conveniences - including expanded facilities - then the station management/Amtrak could probably make them available - and add a user fee or raise rail ticket prices to cover the cost. The instances when the Great Hall is reserved for events are relatively few. If someone wants to complain about rail stations - we might begin with the pitiful situation at St. Paul.

 

[Bierboy]

I have to concur that it's a bit crazy in there. We arrived at CUS on the EB May 31, waiting in the Metropolitan Lounge for about 90 minutes before catching our connecting Illinois Zephyr home. I can attest to the lines being out the door, and they don't seem to board the trains as early as they can. But I guess it's a good sign about ridership....

 

[Ispolkom]

Given the volume of people who move through the station - reportedly more than 17 million a year - I think passengers are reasonably accomodated. But, if some people want more conveniences - including expanded facilities - then the station management/Amtrak could probably make them available - and add a user fee or raise rail ticket prices to cover the cost. The instances when the Great Hall is reserved for events are relatively few. If someone wants to complain about rail stations - we might begin with the pitiful situation at St. Paul.

Now, now, if Chicago Union Station does well by its 17 million yearly passengers, surely St. Paul's Midway Station is a palace for its 147,791 yearly passengers. Heck, they both have Metropolitan Lounges, and I'm sure that the waiting area for coach passengers in St. Paul is at least 1% as large as those in Chicago. And try to find free long-term parking at Union Station.

There is a plan to move Amtrak service back to St. Paul Union Depot in 2012 or 2014. I'm in favor of this, as it would refurbish a great old building and give a poke in the eye to Minneapolis, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[the_traveler]

I agree that it does not make sense to "hold" the Great Hall for rentals "when it can be rented". Now if it was rented every day, it might be a different story. But being it's rented maybe once a month or two - why have it empty the other 30-60 days? :huh:

Now I admit I'm not there every day, but I've never seen it being used except for seating. And if on the high end, I may have seen 10 people sitting in the whole Great Hall!

 

[frj1983]

On the other hand,

Nothing is stopping people from sitting in the Great Hall during the day or when waiting for your Amtrak train. Announcements are made all over the station and if you keep an eye on the arrival/departure boards you can certainly move to your gate with alacrity to catch your train. I'm not sure, but I wonder what the ownership status of CUS is??? Is Amtrak the sole owner?? I have a foggy memory of some sort of discussion from a few years ago about Amtrak not really owning the headhouse in which the Great Hall is located?? I could really be off there, but I do wonder about the whole ownership thing of CUS? :huh:

 

[VentureForth]

Given the volume of people who move through the station - reportedly more than 17 million a year - I think passengers are reasonably accomodated. But, if some people want more conveniences - including expanded facilities - then the station management/Amtrak could probably make them available - and add a user fee or raise rail ticket prices to cover the cost. The instances when the Great Hall is reserved for events are relatively few. If someone wants to complain about rail stations - we might begin with the pitiful situation at St. Paul.

Interesting thing about numbers. Amtrak owns Chicago Union. According to remarks by Norm Mineta (an avid Amtrak objector), 2004 saw 33 million passengers - 2.3 of which were Amtrak. The rest were Metra. Amtrak's 2008 numbers show about 3.1 mil pax through Union Station. The folks that are served by Metra typically don't have luggage and either depart right away to a connecting train, subway or EL or walk to their destination and the same coming back. For the most part, the waiting area is soley for Amtrakkers. It is a bummer knowing that Amtrak owns the station and their own pax get the boot first. The remarks by Mineta are interesting in other ways, too. He calls for the sale of Union Station to a regional transit authority - because Amtrak is the defacto controller of all schedules in and out of CHI. If ownership was reverted to a government agency, Amtrak would be squeezed out. Frankly, I hope Amtrak is charging every penny they can for rent - not only from Metro, but for every activity that goes on in that building. I'm all for renting out the open space for events, but there should be ample accomodations for their own pax FIRST.

 

[VentureForth]

I have to concur that it's a bit crazy in there. We arrived at CUS on the EB May 31, waiting in the Metropolitan Lounge for about 90 minutes before catching our connecting Illinois Zephyr home. I can attest to the lines being out the door, and they don't seem to board the trains as early as they can. But I guess it's a good sign about ridership....

I think that it's silly to have to line up like school children to get on a train. You don't have to on Metra or at any non-terminal on the Amtrak system (that I'm aware of).

 

[haolerider]

I have to concur that it's a bit crazy in there. We arrived at CUS on the EB May 31, waiting in the Metropolitan Lounge for about 90 minutes before catching our connecting Illinois Zephyr home. I can attest to the lines being out the door, and they don't seem to board the trains as early as they can. But I guess it's a good sign about ridership....

I think that it's silly to have to line up like school children to get on a train. You don't have to on Metra or at any non-terminal on the Amtrak system (that I'm aware of).

What would you prefer - a "group charge" down the platform? Women and children last!!

 

[VentureForth]

What would you prefer - a "group charge" down the platform? Women and children last!!

Let people arrive at the platform on their own within 15 minutes (30 minutes for sleeper) of departure. I've never been babysat to my train like here in the US. Are people walked to their train in other countries? That may be why there is overcrowding in the lounge. People have to be in one place so that when their train is called, they can be part of the perp walk.

Of all the stations in the national network, I would think that the safest place to be 30 minutes prior would be on the platform at a terminal as opposed to standing trackside at, say, Mobile.

I don't oppose the lines per se - obviously you can't have a mad rush at one moment of 150 people with their bags trying to get into a single train door. It's like the silly walk with the tour guide at LAX that seems to be over kill. Let a station attendant stand at the end of the platform at CHI and tell you how far down the platform you need to go to board (like at an airline gate).

 

[frj1983]

Given the volume of people who move through the station - reportedly more than 17 million a year - I think passengers are reasonably accomodated. But, if some people want more conveniences - including expanded facilities - then the station management/Amtrak could probably make them available - and add a user fee or raise rail ticket prices to cover the cost. The instances when the Great Hall is reserved for events are relatively few. If someone wants to complain about rail stations - we might begin with the pitiful situation at St. Paul.

Interesting thing about numbers. Amtrak owns Chicago Union. According to remarks by Norm Mineta (an avid Amtrak objector), 2004 saw 33 million passengers - 2.3 of which were Amtrak. The rest were Metra. Amtrak's 2008 numbers show about 3.1 mil pax through Union Station. The folks that are served by Metra typically don't have luggage and either depart right away to a connecting train, subway or EL or walk to their destination and the same coming back. For the most part, the waiting area is soley for Amtrakkers. It is a bummer knowing that Amtrak owns the station and their own pax get the boot first. The remarks by Mineta are interesting in other ways, too. He calls for the sale of Union Station to a regional transit authority - because Amtrak is the defacto controller of all schedules in and out of CHI. If ownership was reverted to a government agency, Amtrak would be squeezed out. Frankly, I hope Amtrak is charging every penny they can for rent - not only from Metro, but for every activity that goes on in that building. I'm all for renting out the open space for events, but there should be ample accomodations for their own pax FIRST.

Ahh yes,

That's what I remember now, that Mineta talk about selling CUS and a developer trumpeting what he would do with the area after he bought it! It had nothing to do with Amtrak OR Metra! :blink:

 

[Longford]

“I've never seen it being used except for seating. And if on the high end, I may have seen 10 people sitting in the whole Great Hall!”

I’m in the station on a regular, frequent basis . . . and it’s the rare sight to see the hall closed to people who want to sit there. My impression has been that most first-class Amtrak passengers consider sitting in the hall beneath their station in life – a snooty attitude. It’s there and if someone wants to sit, then they should sit and stop complaining. Of course, they can’t get free soft drinks or chips in the Great Hall like they can in the Metropolitan Lounge.

“The folks that are served by Metra typically don't have luggage and either depart right away to a connecting train, subway or EL or walk to their destination and the same coming back. For the most part, the waiting area is soley for Amtrakkers. ”

Many Metra passengers mill about waiting for train departures, but those waits are longer on weekends and at night after rush hour, as compared to weekends when the Metra trains typically depart 2-hours apart. You’ll also see many people with luggage – some Amtrak passengers continuing their journey on Metra and others who live in the city who are visiting relatives/friends out in the suburbs.

“If ownership was reverted to a government agency, Amtrak would be squeezed out.”

I doubt what you’re saying would happen. What’s the difference – realistically speaking – between Amtrak and a “government agency”? Little. The local transportation agency controlling the Metra trains does a reasonably good job with station upkeep throughout that particular service network.

“I'm all for renting out the open space for events, but there should be ample accomodations for their own pax FIRST.”

Metra is probably paying more than its fair share of expenses, thus providing for the things Amtrak passengers enjoy at the station. But, go ahead and add more amenities – and charge the Amtrak passengers user fees to make up the difference for the exclusivity. I repeat – my observation is that there are ample services and conveniences for Amtrak passengers, if they’re truly interested in taking advantage of them in Union Station.

“I think that it's silly to have to line up like school children to get on a train. You don't have to on Metra or at any non-terminal on the Amtrak system (that I'm aware of).”

I’ve been a daily passenger on Metra trains for the past 5-years, and standing in a line to board the train is commonplace. Not every train, and not every day – but if one travels in rush hours and at certain hours of the weekends standing in a line to board a train is what you do. Re-read the passenger numbers for the terminal and do the math yourself. Lines are unavoidable. I think some Amtrak passengers are blind to the world around them.

This has been, IMO, much fuss about nothing.

 

[the_traveler]

What would you prefer - a "group charge" down the platform? Women and children last!!

Let people arrive at the platform on their own within 15 minutes (30 minutes for sleeper) of departure. I've never been babysat to my train like here in the US. Are people walked to their train in other countries? That may be why there is overcrowding in the lounge. People have to be in one place so that when their train is called, they can be part of the perp walk.

Since many Metra passengers arrive shortly before boarding their trains, I propose that the main Amtrak waiting room be moved to the Great Hall - and the smaller room be converted for Metra waiting for those who need it. Perhaps this might allow the Metropolitan Lounge an opportunity to expand also!

I don't know, but I think a "hallway" could be built from either end of the Great Hall to the North and South gates! And this might also help the businesses on that side get more people to the stores. (I think many Amtrak passengers don't even know they are there!)

I don't oppose the lines per se - obviously you can't have a mad rush at one moment of 150 people with their bags trying to get into a single train door. It's like the silly walk with the tour guide at LAX that seems to be over kill. Let a station attendant stand at the end of the platform at CHI and tell you how far down the platform you need to go to board (like at an airline gate).

Even at KIN, where southbound trains are boarded on Track 1 (across a bridge), they don't make everyone wait until "a certain time" to go to that track. Many go 10, 20 or 30 minutes early to wait over there! Sometimes, when you are waiting over there, an AE passes on that track at 140+ MPH! (Like an AE comes thru about 7:10 and a Regional stops at 7:16! And yes, they do announce the AE going thru!) I have yet to see a train pass thru CUS at 140 MPH! (Not even 100 MPH!)

Hard to believe, but I do know how to read a monitor - and can even find track 22 myself! At the airport, I even find my way from Gate 32 to Gate 47 myself!

 

[VentureForth]

“The folks that are served by Metra typically don't have luggage and either depart right away to a connecting train, subway or EL or walk to their destination and the same coming back. For the most part, the waiting area is soley for Amtrakkers. ”
Many Metra passengers mill about waiting for train departures, but those waits are longer on weekends and at night after rush hour, as compared to weekends when the Metra trains typically depart 2-hours apart. You’ll also see many people with luggage – some Amtrak passengers continuing their journey on Metra and others who live in the city who are visiting relatives/friends out in the suburbs.

I did make that caveat.

“If ownership was reverted to a government agency, Amtrak would be squeezed out.”
I doubt what you’re saying would happen. What’s the difference – realistically speaking – between Amtrak and a “government agency”? Little. The local transportation agency controlling the Metra trains does a reasonably good job with station upkeep throughout that particular service network.

Sometimes I forget that I have to say my thoughts very precisely to avoid getting misunderstood. I meant a sale between Amtrak (a quasi government agency to be sure) and a regional government agency. My point was that Amtrak should maintain ownership of Union Station and reap the benefits of rent.

“I think that it's silly to have to line up like school children to get on a train. You don't have to on Metra or at any non-terminal on the Amtrak system (that I'm aware of).”
I’ve been a daily passenger on Metra trains for the past 5-years, and standing in a line to board the train is commonplace. Not every train, and not every day – but if one travels in rush hours and at certain hours of the weekends standing in a line to board a train is what you do. Re-read the passenger numbers for the terminal and do the math yourself. Lines are unavoidable. I think some Amtrak passengers are blind to the world around them.

This has been, IMO, much fuss about nothing.

Again, I did state that I meant the standing in line and walking out to the train with a grumpy "tour guide". Of course you have to have lines to board. I'm very familiar with lining up to board a train. Just not lining up in a lounge and walking single file with a hall pass behind a suited employee.

 

[printman2000]

I have said this before, but the Great Hall would need to be air conditioned if it is going to be a waiting room. Every time I have been through, it has been quite warm. Not sure if that is because of A/C problems, not using the A/C or because there is no A/C.

 

[VentureForth]

One of the "features" of the Great Hall is its incredible ceiling height. Older architecture incorporated high ceilings to allow for a place for heat to rise to. Not exactly "air conditioning" but prevented stagnating of the outdoor temperature. That's why a lot of older buildings have 10 to 12' ceilings (then they're taken away by adding AC ducting).

Consequently, such a large open space is also very difficult to heat or cool.

 

[haolerider]

“The folks that are served by Metra typically don't have luggage and either depart right away to a connecting train, subway or EL or walk to their destination and the same coming back. For the most part, the waiting area is soley for Amtrakkers. ”
Many Metra passengers mill about waiting for train departures, but those waits are longer on weekends and at night after rush hour, as compared to weekends when the Metra trains typically depart 2-hours apart. You’ll also see many people with luggage – some Amtrak passengers continuing their journey on Metra and others who live in the city who are visiting relatives/friends out in the suburbs.

I did make that caveat.

“If ownership was reverted to a government agency, Amtrak would be squeezed out.”
I doubt what you’re saying would happen. What’s the difference – realistically speaking – between Amtrak and a “government agency”? Little. The local transportation agency controlling the Metra trains does a reasonably good job with station upkeep throughout that particular service network.

Sometimes I forget that I have to say my thoughts very precisely to avoid getting misunderstood. I meant a sale between Amtrak (a quasi government agency to be sure) and a regional government agency. My point was that Amtrak should maintain ownership of Union Station and reap the benefits of rent.

“I think that it's silly to have to line up like school children to get on a train. You don't have to on Metra or at any non-terminal on the Amtrak system (that I'm aware of).”
I’ve been a daily passenger on Metra trains for the past 5-years, and standing in a line to board the train is commonplace. Not every train, and not every day – but if one travels in rush hours and at certain hours of the weekends standing in a line to board a train is what you do. Re-read the passenger numbers for the terminal and do the math yourself. Lines are unavoidable. I think some Amtrak passengers are blind to the world around them.

This has been, IMO, much fuss about nothing.

Again, I did state that I meant the standing in line and walking out to the train with a grumpy "tour guide". Of course you have to have lines to board. I'm very familiar with lining up to board a train. Just not lining up in a lounge and walking single file with a hall pass behind a suited employee.

I think the idea of a person taking the sleeping car passengers to the train is intended to provide a sense of an extra service, rather than saying - there's your train - go for it! In Washington, an Amtrak employee goes to the ACela lounge and takes the sleeping car passengers to the escalator/elevator serving the appropriate track. I think the passengers generally appreciate this kind of service and don't object to it.

 

[MattW]

It's one thing to have a line form as the result of a bottleneck at say a train door or whatever, and it's quite another to be shepherded like mindless livestock. Having a series of "gates" with people looking at the tickets and then directing them to a particular car is perfect. It wouldn't turn a mass of people into the terror-target they are when being forcibly restrained into a line and it would more than likely make the platform less crowded. Or if you didn't want the 'Gates, just have the crew stand at whatever doors they already stand at and either allow boarding to pax with their tickets, or tell them how many more cars to go down or back up.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Something to keep in mind when arguing about lines... Amtrak pax (many if not most) arrive on trains in the early morning and wait for trains going out West during the afternoon and evening. Many of them (myself included) will just make sure baggage and tickets are in order then go and sit in the boarding gate with nothing better to do but to sit and wait.

In the converse, in the late afternoon many pax go through the station coming off the Western trains and many go and wait for the local or Eastern trains.

Think about the all-off "rule" there... you have thousands of people getting off the Western trains and there are only two daily LD trains going Eastbound-- the CL and LSL. You get three or four trains feeding pax steadily into two trains which, by the way, share the same concourse and gate as the local Amtrak service. It is not unusual to see two train's worth of people waiting in the same seats while a third train is boarding in a line right in front of them...

 

[Everydaymatters]

Couldn't they allow early boarding and just put a sign up by each car, which could direct the pax to that particular car?

For example, through passenges from Chicago to Washington on the CL would have a sign by the entrance to their car saying "Through Passengers". Another sign for pax getting off at intermediate stops, etc.

The commuter trains I take, either from Chicago to Elgin at CUS or from Chicago to Harvard at the Ogilvie, all allow you to board as soon as the train is posted and the car doors are open. That's sometimes up to 1/2 hour before the train departs. There's no stampede like there is on the LD Amtrak trains.

As far as the Great Hall, going east past the restaurant, through the doorway, there are corridors on both sides leading to the gates to trains on both sides. How hard would it be to convert that to an Amtrak waiting room? If the argument is that it's too far for some people to walk, I believe there's room for a moving sidewalk, which should be easy enough to install fairly quickly.

 

[printman2000]

Consequently, such a large open space is also very difficult to heat or cool.

Agreed, and that is possibly a big reason why it will not be used as a main waiting room.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Couldn't they allow early boarding and just put a sign up by each car, which could direct the pax to that particular car?
For example, through passenges from Chicago to Washington on the CL would have a sign by the entrance to their car saying "Through Passengers". Another sign for pax getting off at intermediate stops, etc.

That is pretty much what they do already. The CL boards sleepers about 30 minutes before their 6:50 departure, coach a few minutes later. The train is boarded with each person getting their ticket checked at the gate and getting a seat check based on destination at the coaches on the platform (sleepers of course are pre-boarded with the help of station crew and the Conductor), the doors are shut, there are a couple tests performed before the train departs. I've listened to the procedure on my scanner a half-dozen times. It always goes like clockwork.

I don't really much care for lines, but really-- it isn't any better in airports, and it isn't any better at other stations. The only thing I have ever complained about are the ticket checkers who have no clue what they're doing.

If you open up the Great Hall (so to speak, given its already open) people will still go to the boarding lounges unless there is direct access to the tracks from the Hall.

I will say there should be more priority seating at the front of the gate for disabled/families/pax in need. There is some, but rarely is there somebody regulating who goes in and out or actually tells people that there is priority waiting space to people who stand around for hours before finding out.

I don't think there is anything horrible about boarding in CUS-- it needs some fixing, like any other station or airport for that matter. You want to go try switching from a Delta flight to an AirTran regional in Atlanta... be my guest.

I also feel the need to inject some good things about CUS: The redcaps are wonderful and make every effort to see to the needs of the elderly. Better than that of other stations, and they seem to be plentiful.

 

[Bierboy]

When we boarded the Illinois Zephyr May 31, there were actually TWO lines, side-by-side, waiting to board. As we got to the door, they "merged" as someone checked our tickets. It was actually quite calm; no pushing or rushing, although there was some line-cutting. Then, as we approached the train, an Amtrak person asked which stop we were getting off at, then directed us to the appropriate car.