Passenger service pre-Amtrak.

[MStrain]

So I am sitting in my office today enjoying the beautiful Mississippi weather outside my window and a thought came to me: What were the passenger trains like before Amtrak? We know what they looked like. But was the service pretty bad or pretty good? I know the old trains were flashier and had certain perks to them, but was the service any better? More delays than Amtrak now? I have known nothing but Amtrak my whole life and was hoping to get some memories jogged and stories posted here about rail travel in the days before mergers and before the ultimate assumption of passenger rail by Amtrak.

Not that any of you are THAT old......

Just kidding. 26 is starting to feel old to me.



MStrain

 

[had8ley]

WOW !!! Let me count the ways. In a few years before Amtrak the Pullman Company ran most of the sleeping cars and some of the parlor cars. There were Pullman conductors and Pullman porters (most named George after the founder). You walked into the diner to eat a meal in a suit and tie. The cigar, pipe and cigarette smoke would almost knock you over especially in a diner lounge. Usually two or more tables were set aside by a glass partition for those who chose to enjoy a hi-ball before dinner. You can still see evidence of these cars in a 44 seat heritage diner with a glass partition at the end of the car away from the kitchen. Service was impeccable; the train crew took off their hats as they walked through the car and were disciplined if they didn't. There was no "crew only" space and cell phones, I-pods and service other than 5 star was NEVER tolerated. The crisp table linens and spotless starched uniforms of the waiters were immaculate. There were four cooks in the kitchen and four waiters in the diner. The oldest waiter usually was saved for "upstairs" service (room service in your Pullman room) as the tips were usually a lot better than waiting on tables in the diner. There were so many choices on the menu and each RR tried to outdo the other by having regional choices. The car was run by a steward who seemed to have complete control over every move made by any of the staff. It was a whole different ball game and one I doubt we'll ever see on Amtrak ever again.

 

[Walt]

What were the passenger trains like before Amtrak? We know what they looked like. But was the service pretty bad or pretty good? I know the old trains were flashier and had certain perks to them, but was the service any better? More delays than Amtrak now? I have known nothing but Amtrak my whole life and was hoping to get some memories jogged and stories posted here about rail travel in the days before mergers and before the ultimate assumption of passenger rail by Amtrak.

Check out GrandLuxe Rail. They attach their cars to Amtrak passenger trains, for several of Amtrak's regular routes. Basically, giving one the option of something beyond, way beyond, Amtrak's first class.

From what I understand, years ago, conductors and engineers prided themselves on being 'on time'. Have a conductor's watch meant having one of the most accurate watches made.

 

[AlanB]

Check out GrandLuxe Rail. They attach their cars to Amtrak passenger trains, for several of Amtrak's regular routes. Basically, giving one the option of something beyond, way beyond, Amtrak's first class.

They only did that late last year for the very first time, and considering the poor results I'm not sure if it will be repeated. I'm thinking that there were at least say 50 runs planned and announced for various Amtrak routes, and all but about 5 of the runs were cancelled for lack of bookings.

 

[MrFSS]

I am 66, almost 67. My last pre-Amtrak ride was from Denver to Chicago on a UP train. It has now been over 40 years ago but I remember parts of the trip well. I was in the AF and going home on leave (Kentucky). I couldn't afford a sleeper, but at that age coach was fine. I did treat myself to dinner in the dome diner car that was this type dome car.

It was in the winter time, snow on the ground, as we raced across the open flat lands of Colorado and Nebraska. As I walked up the stairs to the dome I noticed I was the only one there. I had a "front row seat" so to speak where I could see out the front glass as well as both sides. The lights were dimmed and the waiter treated me as if I were royalty. I had a big steak diner with all the trimmings and sat there for what had to have been several hours watching the night go by.

It was clear and the moon was out bright so you could see some of the country side and the small towns we zipped through on the way to Chicago.

All was well in the world (Kennedy would be assassinated the next year) and I didn't have to think about anything Air Force for the next two weeks.

The train was on time (rare in this day and age on UP tracks) and Chicago Union Station was bustling the next day when we arrived. I had time to take the EL (which in those days came right to CUS) out o visit my grandmother for a few hours before returning to CUS for the red-eye on the PRR to Louisville. Not quite the same as the UP train, but still an enjoyable trip.

And, speaking of remembering, while home on that leave I had a wisdom tooth go bad, I had to got to Ft Know, had it pulled and it ruined the rest of my leave. The really bad part was I flew back o Denver - so this was my last train ride before Amtrak took over.

 

[PRR 60]

The "glory days" of passenger trains pre-Amtrak is largely a myth for those of us who lived in the Northeast. Sure there were some nice trains, and even some very very nice trains pre-Amtrak. But like old TV, for every "I Love Lucy" there were dozens of shows that stunk and no one remembers today.

The run-of-the-mill passenger train in the 1960's, particularly in the northeast, was a sorry, ratty excuse for transportation. The trains were dirty, late, and the on board service left a lot to be desired. For each Broadway Limited there were a dozen "Manhattan Limited's". For each "Afternoon Congressional" there were a dozen "Legislator's". The Philadelphia to New York "Clockers" were simply miserable trains using old P70 coaches that were hot, summer and winter, last renovated in the 1930's, and last washed when the last rain fell.

The term "roach coach" was coined as an all-too accurate description of the condition of the Penn Central's passenger equipment as the PC was circling the bowl waiting for the final flush into bankruptcy. With the exception of some western roads (yes the Union Pacific included), the railroads wanted no part of passenger service and did very little to encourage anyone to ride a train, and arguably did a lot to try and get people to stay away. The Metroliners of the late 60's were a huge hit because they were actually nice trains, of course bought and paid for by the Federal Government.

My first ever overnight train ride was on the PRR's General in 1963. The General was the best coach service train the PRR offered between New York and Chicago (there were three). It required an extra service charge to ride. The coaches were dirty and hot. The dual pane glazing of the windows were cracked and condensation formed between the panes blocking the view. We ran through a rainstorm and the car leaked so badly we had to keep everything off the floor since the water was streaming from end to end. The seats were hard as a rock and sleep was impossible in the hot, humid sauna-like car. I was the one in my family that had suggested taking the train to California to the point of being a pest, my parents went along with me, and that first night I thought there was a chance I would be put up for adoption (at age 15). Fortunately, our next train, the California Zephyr, reversed that bad impression and kept me in the family.

I do not dispute the stories of great trains prior to Amtrak. I rode a few (none, however, as nice as the GrandLuxe). But, those were the exception, not the rule. No one who lived with the last gasps of privately run passenger trains in the Northeast looks back on those days with any fondness whatsoever.

 

[Sam Damon]

The "glory days" of passenger trains pre-Amtrak is largely a myth for those of us who lived in the Northeast. Sure there were some nice trains, and even some very very nice trains pre-Amtrak. But like old TV, for every "I Love Lucy" there were dozens of shows that stunk and no one remembers today.
<snip>

I do not dispute the stories of great trains prior to Amtrak. I rode a few (none, however, as nice as the GrandLuxe). But, those were the exception, not the rule. No one who lived with the last gasps of privately run passenger trains in the Northeast looks back on those days with any fondness whatsoever.

My knowledge of pre-Amtrak passenger train service, is sadly, second-hand. After I pass along my father's last pre-Amtrak passenger train ride, perhaps you'll understand.

You see, he was separating from the military after his service during the Korean War. The Army put him on a PRR train, ultimately bound for the Pittsburgh area. At Harrisburg, he told me, he was put on a local train. Unlike the name trains, this nondescript train made every stop, had surly conductors and brakemen, overpriced food in the snack and dining cars, and hot, drafty coaches. The steam engine pulling it might have been picturesque running around Horseshoe Curve, but the cinders blowing into the coach made him less than happy. In short, he had a miserable experience.

He had so miserable an experience -- particularly with the train crew -- that when he was starting a business in the late 1950's with reason to travel to NYC, Allegheny Airlines got his travel dollars, not PRR.

The thought of even taking a vacation by train when I was growing up never crossed his mind. I've at least exposed my kids to intercity and commuter passenger trains.

 

[Guest_Yerry_*]

I rode the C&O's Pere Marquette back in 1968. I was only 8 but was already a hard-core railfan: I knew every siding, train handling rule, and stop.

Train was on time, but only because the schedule had been lengthened time and time again. Coaches were clean but very worn. There was no food service. Several cars were still lettered for the Pere Marquette Railroad.

 

[jefffromark]

My rail experience before Amtrak started in 1966 when my mom took me out of school for an Easter trip to Florida aboard SAL's Silver Meteor. We traveled coach from Trenton to West Palm Beach, I fell in love with the Tavern-Obs lounge, the last car of this magnificent 18 car train. It was a real treat to have dinner in the diner, how we had to write our orders on the check/ticket and hoping the waiter could understand the writing. The meals with so good and for breakfast was the "real" railroad french toast.

Everyone who worked the rails were true professionals, and the Florida trains were spotless. But not everything was perfect as it was seldom to arrive on schedule, there was no info given if we were running late or if we sat on a siding for an hour...you just sat there. My Florida excursions became more frequent as I got older and eventually I enjoyed a roomette on Amtrak's version of the Florida Special in 1971. That train was still a class act though it was the last year of operation. Amtrak was still offering good service, operating three 18-car trains a day to both Florida coasts - of course the observation cars were gone but they put together some nice recreation cars that actually had t.v consoles throughout to show cartoons and movies. I remember when the Union & Southern Pacific cars made it to the east, I never experienced a leg-rest coach before, this was a big improvement over the standard 56 seat coaches with footrest. Yes, Amtrak still employeed dining car stewards & full wait-staff, an attendant in every coach, etc.

I eventually moved to Florida in 1974 and remember excursions to Miami aboard Amtrak's Floridian with my grandmother. The Floridian had a full diner and a dome coach and this was a special treat for both of us. The train departed WPB in mid-morning and returned from Miami around 5pm giving us enough time to enjoy dinner before arriving home. This didn't last forever since Amtrak kept messing with the Floridians schedule. I think Amtrak stayed true to the form of the operating railroads, at least staffed properly through 1975 as we purchased two 15-day rail passes and took off over the whole Amtrak system, before superlines and HEP. We traveled to NYC, then down to New Orleans on Southern's "Cresent"; up to Chicago on the Panama Limited; my first time on a ex-Santa Fee high-level coach, diner & lounge on the SW Chief to Los Angeles; the Starlight up to Seattle; and even though I wanted to travel on the North Coast Hiawatha I couldn't because it ran just 3 days a week...we opted for the Empire Builder which still ran with 3 short dome coaches and one long dome lounge...it was a beautiful trip for only $175.00 each!!

 

[mp-44]

It is true some trains left alot to be desired but some were great right to the end. I have rode many of the name trains. There was something about the real California Zephry the diner had fresh carnations every day frosted glass at the entry doors and the ride in the Silver Solarium thru the Moffat Tunnel simply beautiful.The Great Northern had contracted a man to catch trout and the deliver them to the Builder in time for dinner. Fresh trout served right out of the river. Dinner served on Blue China on the CAP.Then food cooked on a wood stove on the Crescent. that was used until the end.Having always traveled Pullman the service was always good never once had a complaint

 

[Ham Radio]

I rode the Northern Pacific Railway with my father during the summer of 1963 between Portland, Oregon and Fargo, North Dakota.

The service was very personal, even in coach. The dining car was very clean, with linen tablecloths and a very friendly waiter staff. Spent most of the trip in the NP domecar soaking in the scenery.

The old AT&SF was a great ride, also.

 

[Larry H.]

As others have said if it was good it was wonderful, and when it was bad it was very bad. Many railroads purposely did every thing in there power to discourage passengers from riding, but others were faithful as mentioned to the last.

On the plus side was a very memorable trip aboard the City of St. Louis on the great looking Gold Union Pacific Cars in the very early 60's. At that time there was still some pride in the service and an attempt to make it enjoyable. I recall sitting in the station in St Louis and at exactly 4:05 as the transistor radio I had announced the time the train began its trip, exactly on time. I was in a roomette and there were only first class passengers allowed in the rear pullman section which is where the Pullmans always were carried. I hate being up front. At any rate the train had a very plush first class lounge with its own dome and card room and overstuffed sofas and chairs with lamps and a small library in one end. Service was first rate only. Also could set your watch by the Illinois Central trains such as the Panama Limited and City of New Orleans. The G M & O between Chicago and St. Louis ran a full diner and parlor car till the end and never dropped the quality of food or service while others like the Wabash Cannon Ball had begun to let the trains slide, unhooked drapes in the parlor car hanging at angles, poorly cleaned cars. I was on the Empire Builder the Last month of service by the Great Northern, still a fantastic looking train with wonderful decor of the west. Even coaches were exciting looking. Wonderful diner with etched Glass Panels though out the car and fresh Salmon served out of seattle. Lots of domes and pullmans. Unfortunately they were already fudging the books and saying they were full when running empty as we found out when told there were no rooms only to find a nearly empty train. That was with four or five pullmans in the consist. On the down side was the trip from New York City to St. Louis in about 1961 at Christmas. A full train, no reclining seats, no water to be found, cold cars and the windows were frosted over the entire trip. The diner was barely adequate with little selection.. I can see how the eastern experience was poor. We also rode the Missouri Pacific to Kansas City and Denver and often at that time they would run five hours late on a five hour run. But for the most part the cars were still nice. I regret I never got to ride on the Santa Fe in its day. I used to see the great cars parked in the Kansas City Union Station when I went to school up there. Always sparkingly and clean with very deluxe lounges and diners. And who can forget the wonderful feeling of getting on a name train and finding it had its own unique decor and color scheme and layout. Nothing worse that riding amtrak and every train is the same no matter what the name.. Boring....

 

[frj1983]

Unfortunately,

I only took one train trip before Amtrak and it was when I was roughly 8 years old (about 1964). My grandparents treated my sister and myself to a ride on the Chicago & Northwestern. We drove from our home in Sheboygan WI over to Fond du Lac WI and then took a train north to Green Bay and back. I still remember clambering up into the gallery section of the car and excitedly watching the sights go by and pestering the Conductor with questions. That whole trip is vividly imprinted in my mind and I can still recall it today!

It was the last trip via train I would take until 1983 (my first Amtrak trip on the CZ). Once passenger trains vanished from my hometown, people never seemed to speak about them again!

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Where to begin? Such a big subject. So many generalities.

So much has already been said about how very good it could be---and how very bad. I agree completely. One of the more amusing examples of what one might call "bad" service was the Memphis local, unofficial name for Sou. train 35-36 from Chattnooga to Memphis-- made about 44 stops, some of them conditional. Actually of course it was serving a real purpose at one time, all those little town have real people living in them also. No diner,no lounge. box lunches put on board in each direction. Contrast that with the Super Chief or the original Cal Zephyr, all the domes, niceties.

Some of the nice things about the past: so much more variety about color schemes, etc. A railroad yard could be "the colors of the rainbow" and that would include both good(i.e. streamlined) and bad(non-streamlined) cars alike.

It was nice to have lounge cars specially decorated for the route; more regional specialties in the dining car, better food on the whole. yet some trains had no lounge or even no diner. So much variety, both good and bad. I remember the Country Ham Breakfast on the L&N and also the Seafood Platter on the same line . There was a cook named Lewis Price who made the biscuits from scratch his own way every morning on the Crescent. He died in a wreck on his beloved Crescent.

I notice that several examples of lateness in the past were cited, but I would still say punctuality was much better on the whole then than it is now. For example, every day in Chattanooga the Pelican would arrive at 11:50 a.m from NOL and BHM and leave at 12.20 p.m. for Knoxville, WAS, NYC. The Royal Palm would arrive at 12:10 p.m. from MI,JAX,ATL and leave at 12.30 p.m. for Cinciinnati and Detroit. I watched that at the now Chattanooga Choo-Choo hotel complex on many a Saturday, after having Krystals for lunch. Would you believe---today----that people actually made connections that tight! I don't remember ever seeng that connection not made. Same thing happened around 5p.m every day in the other direction between the same two trains.

As to courtesy, so hard to generalize. It is easy to see the glass as half full or as hafl empty in so many ways.

What are some ways in which things are better now? Well, technology for one--800 numbers, on line info, Julie, credit cards. Today we can call Julie 30 times aa day(or go on-line) , going nowhere if we-- like-- just to see how the trains in general are running. In the past you called a real ticket office, talked to a real(usually busy) ticket agent who had much more important things to do than tell you if the northbound Georgian was on time. (it usually was, anyway).

Some other things better today would be leg rest coaches in all long distance trains. many more showers (most trains in the past had none whatsoever) , meals included in sleeper. Lounge cars all having some food--some in the past was mostly beverages and peanuts. Oh yeah, let's not forget p.a. systems in the train. That was considered a real luxury in the "good old days".

It is good to have a national company in charge of things---I THINK that is a help. But yes I miss the yellow City trains of the UP, the blue trains, red trains, green and orange trains, the train name being on the menu ,and the stationary(as in writing letters in the lounge car) .

What do I miss the most? How many more trains on there used to be, even when they were not as perfect as we have told ourselves they were. You could go so many more places, Like Chicago(from where I have lived, Chattanooga and Atlanta). and Florida. Wow!! Glad I am old enough to remember that.

 

[jphjaxfl]

My Dad worked for the New York Central in the midwest so I started out riding trains when I was a few weeks old in 1948. The service in the 1950s, even in the Northeastern United States, was excellent as others have described. The service in the Sleeping Cars, Dining Cars, Lounges, Parlor Cars and Coaches was beyond reproach. With the advent of the Boeing 707 Jet in 1957 which made flying much more compfortable, business people started to transition from rail to air. The railroads in the Northeast reacted first by consolidating trains and cutting back on service. For example NYC's 20th Century Ltd which had been All Pullman for many years had coaches added to it in the late 1950s. The Trains between Washington and Florida, Trains in the midwest and west continued to be excellent. AT&SF launched the new El Capitain all coach streamliner in 1957 and CB&Q launched the new Denver Zephyr around the same time as many of the Eastern Railroads were cutting back. Vacationers still flocked to trains along the east coast and out west. By the late 60s, service had deteriorated on many of the railroads, but some such as the Seaboard Coastline, Santa Fe and Union Pacific still had decent service. I rode the Santa Fe's all Pullman Super Chief in the summer of 1970 and the service was excellant. The Super Chief Dining Car had a unique menu. Hors D'oeuvrs were served in the lounge car at cocktail hour.

The sleeping cars had a choice of roomette,bedroom, compartments and drawing rooms. There were 10 sleeping cars on the train I was on and it was 85% capacity. As far as timeliness unless, there was severe weather, the trains were never as late as they are now. I traveled by train alot and made connections in unique places such as Howe, Oklahoma with connection times that Amtrak wouldn't even book these days and never missed a reasonable connection. The Pullman Attendants, Dining and Lounge Car attendents provided excellent service and were rewarded by very lucrative tips. Many well known personalities continued to travel by train even into the 1960s. I recall the Duke and Dutchess of Windsor riding the Texas Eagle on a trip to Houston. Actors and Actresses used the Western Trains. Amtrak has never provided service at the level of the Railroads that provided their best service.

 

[John Bredin]

There were Pullman conductors and Pullman porters (most named George after the founder).

No, they weren't. Some dumbass passengers called them that, a dehumanizing* disrespect to the porters, who didn't complain because they wanted their tips and to keep their jobs, and a minor vexation to passengers actually named George, who did complain, although not to the Pullman Company because it wasn't their fault.

You walked into the diner to eat a meal in a suit and tie.

Most men outside of blue-collar or farm work did everything in a suit and tie back then.

There was no "crew only" space and cell phones, I-pods and service other than 5 star was NEVER tolerated.

It would have been some miracle to tolerate (or do anything else with) cellphones and I-pods because they didn't exist. That said, I seriously doubt that if cellphones had existed in, say, 1950, an important businessman traveling on the Broadway Limited to an important meeting in Chicago would have refrained from using his phone for imporant calls (and they're all important, because they're his calls) or tolerated the Pullman lounge attendant or porter telling him to refrain. There were self-important jerks in 1908 and 1958 just as much as in 2008.

And what's wrong with crew-only space?! Nobody's on-duty 24-7, and if passengers could walk into crew space and demand service in the middle of the night while off-duty crewmembers were sleeping, you know some self-important jerks would do just that.

The crisp table linens and spotless starched uniforms of the waiters were immaculate. There were four cooks in the kitchen and four waiters in the diner. The oldest waiter usually was saved for "upstairs" service (room service in your Pullman room) as the tips were usually a lot better than waiting on tables in the diner. There were so many choices on the menu and each RR tried to outdo the other by having regional choices. The car was run by a steward who seemed to have complete control over every move made by any of the staff.

Yes, and all that show was put on to impress businessmen with the efficiency of that railroad (Pullman was an agent of the railroads after the 1940s) so they would ship goods with the same railroad. When most businessmen stopped taking trains, the level of service you describe started disappearing.

In the decade or so after Pulllman but before Amtrak -- and thus relevant to the OP's question -- some railroads maintained a semblance of the same service, but others flushed service down the crapper in an effort to reduce ridership so they could get permission from the ICC to cancel the passenger trains.

Or to put it another way, only Sir Elton John should wear rose-colored glasses. :lol:

*in the mode of "they all look alike to me" and such.

 

[AlanB]

There was no "crew only" space and cell phones, I-pods and service other than 5 star was NEVER tolerated.

It would have been some miracle to tolerate (or do anything else with) cellphones and I-pods because they didn't exist. That said, I seriously doubt that if cellphones had existed in, say, 1950, an important businessman traveling on the Broadway Limited to an important meeting in Chicago would have refrained from using his phone for imporant calls (and they're all important, because they're his calls) or tolerated the Pullman lounge attendant or porter telling him to refrain. There were self-important jerks in 1908 and 1958 just as much as in 2008.

And what's wrong with crew-only space?! Nobody's on-duty 24-7, and if passengers could walk into crew space and demand service in the middle of the night while off-duty crewmembers were sleeping, you know some self-important jerks would do just that.

John,

I think that you misinterpreted Jay's sentence there. First, he was just listing differences between then and now and strung them all together in one sentence. I'm sure that he was simply pointing out that there were no cell phones and I-Pods back then. Not that they would have been tolerated. Regarding the tolerating section, he was only saying that nothing less than 5 star service would have been tolerated. It really had nothing to do with the first half of the sentence.

As for crew-only space, I'm quite positive that Jay finds nothing wrong with that. As someone who drove trains for a living, I'm quite certain that he would never begrudge them some private time and space. He knows how hard life on the road is. I believe that his comment was intended to portray what it was like, that the crew slept in the dining car, and perhaps indicate how hard and wrong it was that they didn't have space.

 

[had8ley]

There was no "crew only" space and cell phones, I-pods and service other than 5 star was NEVER tolerated.

It would have been some miracle to tolerate (or do anything else with) cellphones and I-pods because they didn't exist. That said, I seriously doubt that if cellphones had existed in, say, 1950, an important businessman traveling on the Broadway Limited to an important meeting in Chicago would have refrained from using his phone for imporant calls (and they're all important, because they're his calls) or tolerated the Pullman lounge attendant or porter telling him to refrain. There were self-important jerks in 1908 and 1958 just as much as in 2008.

And what's wrong with crew-only space?! Nobody's on-duty 24-7, and if passengers could walk into crew space and demand service in the middle of the night while off-duty crewmembers were sleeping, you know some self-important jerks would do just that.

John,

I think that you misinterpreted Jay's sentence there. First, he was just listing differences between then and now and strung them all together in one sentence. I'm sure that he was simply pointing out that there were no cell phones and I-Pods back then. Not that they would have been tolerated. Regarding the tolerating section, he was only saying that nothing less than 5 star service would have been tolerated. It really had nothing to do with the first half of the sentence.

As for crew-only space, I'm quite positive that Jay finds nothing wrong with that. As someone who drove trains for a living, I'm quite certain that he would never begrudge them some private time and space. He knows how hard life on the road is. I believe that his comment was intended to portray what it was like, that the crew slept in the dining car, and perhaps indicate how hard and wrong it was that they didn't have space.

Thank you Alan. You're getting good at interpreting my run together thoughts. And yes, I was FULLY aware of the "George" thing but the porters could not wear name tags so call it what you may, ignorance or deliberate, most porters were referred to as George. The creature that created that sorry treatment of his own help was George Pullman. And I have seen a flagman pulled out of service on the Southern for not removing his cap while walking through the diner. How many Amtrak employees would be out of a job today if the rules were so strictly enforced?

 

[iron mountain]

I will add a few more memories. The most vivid memories I have of riding passenger trains was during the 1950's and 60's.

First, was the Rock Island Rocky Mountain Rocket. I was young, so coach was the class of travel. But that was fine. The train passed through LaSalle-Peru, Illinois along the Illinois River. Beautiful. It blasted over the Nebraska prairie through the night on its way to Colorado Springs. I enjoyed the dinner and the service in the diner.

I rode the Union Pacific City of Portland Limited from Portland, Oregon to Denver, Colorado. I remember eating a wonderful meal in the dome diner watching the breath taking scenery going by. It seems to me I had fresh trout for dinner and peach ice cream for dessert. The trip along the Columbia River was magnificent. The bluffs were made of black basalt with water falls cascading down them. I slept in a berth on that trip. Much fun.

When in high school a group of us took a higschool sponsored trip and rode the Monon from Chicago to Bloomington, Indiana. The train passed through Brown County Indiana famous for its stands of virgin forest. Beautiful scenery. The train itself was unremakable.

When in college I traveled from Chicago to Shreveport, Louisiana. I rode a real dumpy slow Santa Fe train to St. Louis. I don't know what train it was. I do remember it had some kind of box cars attached to the end. We called it a "milk train". I transfered to the Kansas City Southern at KC Union Station. I went to Shreveport on the KCS Flying Crow. It was a great trip. The KCS trains were so colorful. The conductor was black and he would sing the stops. It was kind of a chant. He didn't just say Shreveport. He sang "Shreeeezes po uh".

In the early or mid 60's the CB&Q Zephyr whisked me from Fairfiled, Iowa to Chicago. I had a great breakfast of corned beef hash and poached eggs. The service was good and, dining in a dome car, the view was great also. The seats were so comfortable.

The food and service on these trips was, to the best of my memory, at the very least pleasant if not great. The pride of the staffs was evident in they way they provided service. From ticket agent to Red Cap to porter to conductor and there seemed to be a esprit de corps and a professionalism that is not as evident today. And the RR's themselves must have still had pride in the trains because of the personal touches of good china, linen, signature napkins, regional foods, interior decorating that was tasteful, and so on. And it seems to me that the trains rode so much more smoothly and quietly than the Amtrak trains of today. And most them were punctual.

But it wasn't all good. One trip I made from Dallas, Texas to Shreveport was on the Texas & Pacific RR. What a horrible experience. The train staggered along at what seemed like 20 mph. It took 8 hours to make a relatively short trip. There was no AC. It was very crowded. It was dirty. Babies cried. I thought that I would never get to my destination. And on a short trip on the Denver & Rio Grande I ate lunch in the diner and was subjected to a very surly staff and lousy food. That was in the late 50's.

I also remember watching the troop trains go through the little town we lived in outside of Chicago. They were slow and crowded. They must have used old rolling stock because the men had the windows open and some were kind of hanging out of them. There was a bunch standing on the platform of the last car as the train slowly passed through. They were heading to the West Coast to disembark for Korea. Must have been a grim trip.

On the balance the service, including the food, and comfort was better on the long distance trains than it is today on Amtrak. And I believe OTP was much better. And, as others have mentioned, the different roads were so interesting with their romantic names, color schemes, and variations of service. I don't doubt, as the end drew near, many crews gave up and became disinterested. But some still were professional to the end.

I also spent a lot of time on Milwaukee Road and Chicago and Northwestern commuters in the 50's. And they had their share of problems with cold or too hot, crowded, etc. I even remember the days of steam power on these RR's. You could open your window and sometimes the cinders would blow in. That was a pleasure children, not adults, enjoyed. But they got you there in a timely fashion. And you could relax and read the paper. It was still better than fighting traffic on the Eisenhower.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

One of the more positive themes which pops up in these letters is the Union Pacific dome diner. I, too, share a great love for that car. It was probably my number one favorite pre-Amtrak car.

A word of explanation might be in order. Why do so many like that car? Because,it was more or less the first. While there was something in the late 40's called "the Train of Tomorrow" which ran from Seattle to Portland--it may have had a dome diner but I don't think anything else had until the new UP equipment in 1955 or so.

See, we were not yet spoiled to the Superliners with upstairs in coach, sleeper, diner and lounge. It is common place today. It was a novelty back then. Of course there was the high level El Capitan but it was just one train.

Most domes were on top of coaches, next in order was on top of lounges. But not so much on top of sleepers or diners(diner seating).

Having that steak dinner (meals not included in sleeper prices back then) on the top floor of the rails for the first time ever was a singular experience.

 

[como]

Because my mom didn't like to drive on long trips, my family took several train trips between 1963 and 1967 (1 was between 8 and 1). We lived in Colorado and took several trips on the Denver Zephyr between Denver and Chicago. We went in coach, it was fun, the food was pretty good. I was really impressed with the chocolate candies with orange filling that they gave out after meals. When we went to see relatives in Alabama we would change trains in Chicago, usually the L&N's Hummingbird, which was just ok. One of my grandmother's neighbors said the used to call the L&N the "Long and Nasty". That description seed accurate the trains we were on were usually crowded, not really clean and on one trip 12 hours late. The service was nice but the trips were not all that different from Amtrak. The one big difference was waking up in Omaha at 1 or 2 in the morning and seeing a busy station full of other trains and people. Al and Brenda, you missed it!

 

[TVRM610]

One of the more positive themes which pops up in these letters is the Union Pacific dome diner. I, too, share a great love for that car. It was probably my number one favorite pre-Amtrak car.
A word of explanation might be in order. Why do so many like that car? Because,it was more or less the first. While there was something in the late 40's called "the Train of Tomorrow" which ran from Seattle to Portland--it may have had a dome diner but I don't think anything else had until the new UP equipment in 1955 or so.

See, we were not yet spoiled to the Superliners with upstairs in coach, sleeper, diner and lounge. It is common place today. It was a novelty back then. Of course there was the high level El Capitan but it was just one train.

Most domes were on top of coaches, next in order was on top of lounges. But not so much on top of sleepers or diners(diner seating).

Having that steak dinner (meals not included in sleeper prices back then) on the top floor of the rails for the first time ever was a singular experience.

Dome cars are certainly unique. I still would rather ride in a dome car than a superliner, but then again I prefer single-level equipment anyway because of how they ride. The fact that you could see above the train, even past the engine, and see the signals change as you passed, things like that are so unique to the domes. I certainly miss them indeed.

 

[JayPea]

I took a couple of trips between Spokane and Chicago, one in 1963 on the North Coast Limited and the other in 1965 on the Empire Builder. I was only 3 on the first trip and 5 on the second, and though I don't remember much of either one, I do remember riding in the dome car with my sister on the second trip, on the EB. That was fun; I remember riding up there and watching as the Rocky Mountains in Montana came into view. My mom chose that time to nap. It worked out the best for both worlds; my mom got to rest and my sister and I got to be out from underneath Mom's thumb. :lol: I guess it's an indication of how my mind works that the most vivid memories are of falling down the stairs of the dome car and of seeing the train on a sharp curve in Glacier Park run over a squirrel. As best I can recall, the EB trip was pretty much on time all the way around. The ride itself, though, was something less than desirable: I can remember how rough a ride it was, much rougher than any Amtrak trip I've taken. Just to go to move around on the train could be dangerous; it was almost impossible not to end up in some poor unsuspecting passenger's lap.

I, too, miss the old dome cars. I know it won't ever happen but I'd love to see them return. Riding the dome car (the mishap on the stairs notwithstanding), was one of the happier memories I have of those days.

 

[Poindexter118]

In 1963, I took the train with my folks from L.A. to New York, D.C, Philadelphia, Boston, and other East Coast cities. We rode the Southern Pacific, Union Pacific,

Santa Fe, B&O, C&O across the country. I was young (16), but remember it fondly. The service was good, food was good, and the conductors on board seemed very pleasant. We didn't pay for Pullman, but instead had the ticket where we could get off a train at any town, stay in a hotel, and get on the train the next morning.

I've ridden Amtrak since, and outside of being late more often than on time, the train experience is still nice.

My last experience with Amtrak was from L.A. to Chico, CA. Going up there, the train was on time, but a week later, coming back down, it was 4 hours late. GRR!

 

[jackal]

I took a couple of trips between Spokane and Chicago, one in 1963 on the North Coast Limited and the other in 1965 on the Empire Builder. I was only 3 on the first trip and 5 on the second, and though I don't remember much of either one, I do remember riding in the dome car with my sister on the second trip, on the EB. That was fun; I remember riding up there and watching as the Rocky Mountains in Montana came into view. My mom chose that time to nap. It worked out the best for both worlds; my mom got to rest and my sister and I got to be out from underneath Mom's thumb. :lol: I guess it's an indication of how my mind works that the most vivid memories are of falling down the stairs of the dome car and of seeing the train on a sharp curve in Glacier Park run over a squirrel. As best I can recall, the EB trip was pretty much on time all the way around. The ride itself, though, was something less than desirable: I can remember how rough a ride it was, much rougher than any Amtrak trip I've taken. Just to go to move around on the train could be dangerous; it was almost impossible not to end up in some poor unsuspecting passenger's lap.
I, too, miss the old dome cars. I know it won't ever happen but I'd love to see them return. Riding the dome car (the mishap on the stairs notwithstanding), was one of the happier memories I have of those days.

Just a small plug--some of those old Budd and Pullman domes are now on the Alaska Railroad...