Private intercity railway starts out in New York

[Rail Freak]

It's a good option for Horse Track Folks who want to stay outside of Saratoga, although I dont know why, maybe $$$$$!

 

[Ispolkom]

I've been on this dome. I took it 2 years ago when it was running on the La Veta- Alamosa route in Colorado. Its a very well kept car, and has full dining facilities (kitchen, etc) on the lower level. The menu that we got offered was fairly limited, but they do have the ability to send food up to the bar that is up top. Iowa Pacific is a great operation, they keep their equipment in top shape. It was great to ride this dome. They now have several more ex ATSF full domes that they have acquired for their operations, but the dome that I traveled on was this dome that they keep traveling around the country (it was at Trainfest last weekend). With the notable exception of the Ski Train, whatever Iowa Pacific does is highly successful. They know how to run a railroad.

I think that you're are mixing up dome cars. The Friends of the 261 Super Dome is an ex-Milwaukee Road car, and while it's often seen with Iowa Pacific cars (especially on their rare mileage runs) I think that the Friends of the 261 is a separate, nonprofit organization.

 

[VentureForth]

Iowa Pacific could run the Ski Train, too, if Amtrak didn't go back on its word on insurance coverage requirements and crew.

 

[bretton88]

I've been on this dome. I took it 2 years ago when it was running on the La Veta- Alamosa route in Colorado. Its a very well kept car, and has full dining facilities (kitchen, etc) on the lower level. The menu that we got offered was fairly limited, but they do have the ability to send food up to the bar that is up top. Iowa Pacific is a great operation, they keep their equipment in top shape. It was great to ride this dome. They now have several more ex ATSF full domes that they have acquired for their operations, but the dome that I traveled on was this dome that they keep traveling around the country (it was at Trainfest last weekend). With the notable exception of the Ski Train, whatever Iowa Pacific does is highly successful. They know how to run a railroad.

I think that you're are mixing up dome cars. The Friends of the 261 Super Dome is an ex-Milwaukee Road car, and while it's often seen with Iowa Pacific cars (especially on their rare mileage runs) I think that the Friends of the 261 is a separate, nonprofit organization.

I know, I should have clarified that I've been on the Iowa Pacific dome. I've never been on the F261 dome, sadly.

 

[had8ley]

Hadley

Does our had8ley own a town too!

I don't know how Jay can operate J&J Saloon in Beaumont and also run a town in NYS!

Mr. Dave;

We live in a town (Centerville)(ha!) with four houses. I am the Mayor, Water Commissioner, (No I don't smoke cigars like Ernie Kovaks in the "Great Gildersleve") Garbage Superintendent and resident listener to my loyal citizens. BTW, I own two of the four houses...Jim Hudson is very capable of serving the few customers he might have in Beaumont. That three spot in Beaumont is enough to drive someone to drink~ the engine crew gets off and exchanges words with the off going crew. Then the fresh crew pulls up to let off the sleeper pax and lastly they spot again to let the coach pax smoke. Guess what~ the sleeper pax have to walk the train to get back to their rooms. I couldn't afford Saratoga Springs for lunch let alone own the place. :lol:

 

[the_traveler]

Hadley

Does our had8ley own a town too!

I couldn't afford Saratoga Springs for lunch let alone own the place. :lol:

Hadley, NY is about 15-25 miles north of Saratoga Springs, as the tracks go! If you've heard of Lake George, NY, it's about 15--20 miles west of there! It's about as much in the boondocks as Centerville is!

(The big thing is the Hudson River flowing by!) So you'll feel right at home!

 

[dlagrua]

Back in the day passsenger rail came to thousands of small towns, and larger cities across the USA. I'd like to see private industry pick up many of the abandoned routes. Cities like Louisville, Nashville, Ashville, Huntsville, Mobile, Oklahoma City and Chattenooga haven't had passenger rail service for years. With gasline just under $4 per gallon perhaps its time to expand passenger rail service. Amtrak doesn't have the funding to do it. I would certainly promote giving these routes to the private railroads but in many cases the main lines have been either abandoned or lie in very poor shape. A complete rebuilding of the US passenger rail infrastructure would be required.

 

[the_traveler]

Cities like ... Oklahoma City ... haven't had passenger rail service for years.

What do you call the Heartland Flyer that goes between Ft. Worth and Oklahoma City DAILY then?

 

[AlanB]

(And my guess it will only run in the summer and fall - and maybe spring - but not winter.)

North Creek is home to a large ski resort, Gore Mountain. While not quite as large as Whiteface, it is still a major mountain and a major draw in the winter. So I wouldn't rule out service in the winter.

 

[AlanB]

This is what has me thinking this way.

Bush Plan Would End A Monopoly For Amtrak

Was Bush successful?

No!

 

[AlanB]

The claim about first scheduled intercity blah blah is a bit of a hyperbole IMHO since similar schedule service around weekends in season has been run by Adirondack Scenic from Utica Amtrak Station to Thendera for many years. They have also run service on the north end of the line between Tupper Lake and Lake Placid off and on.

The line currently runs from Lake Placid to Saranac Lake. I've ridden that segment. They're hoping to repair the tracks enough to extend service to Tupper in the future, but currently they do not operate to Tupper. They also still have plans/hopes of restoring the entire line so as to be able to provide regularly scheduled passenger service from Utica all the way to Lake Placid. But that is still years away, at least at current funding levels. A large grant from the Fed or the State of NY could speed things up. But so far there is no hint of any such grant.

The rolled the passenger equipment from Utica to Placid via those tracks, but at walking speeds.

 

[the_traveler]

(And my guess it will only run in the summer and fall - and maybe spring - but not winter.)

North Creek is home to a large ski resort, Gore Mountain. While not quite as large as Whiteface, it is still a major mountain and a major draw in the winter. So I wouldn't rule out service in the winter.

Very true! (See what happens when I'm off a train for a long time?

I used to live 40 miles from there!)

 

[Anderson]

What does the meal service look like, menu-wise? I'm asking because...well, I'm sorely tempted to make a trip up there at some point.

 

[jis]

What does the meal service look like, menu-wise? I'm asking because...well, I'm sorely tempted to make a trip up there at some point.

Do you guys ever bother to look up anything on the subject before posting away? Perhaps even at the specific link given in the first message of the thread?

Links to the menus appear at the bottom of the page. See https://www.sncrr.com/ . Go to the bottom and look in the "Trips" column.

 

[Brandon]

I am glad to see the Saratoga and North Creek Railway getting some discussion on here. I was aboard their inagural run for the media and the local business community. All I can say is wow. They do offer full meal service with quite an extensive menu. We had lunch on the train and the entire meal was prepared onboard. While this is a tourist railroad consider it a tourist railroad with a purpose. They do indeed time their schedules for cross platform transfers with Amtrak at Saratoga Springs. Many NYC residents have camps and cabins in and around North Creek and this provides an alternative means of getting there. During the winter months they will be running ski trains to Gore Mountain (a decent sized ski area 1/2 mile away from the train station). The rail service was warmly received in the community and I wish them well. If you have any questions about their operation I will be glad to answer.

 

[ehbowen]

Whoever made this claim (first private intercity service) is apparently unaware that in the late 1980s the Texas Mexican Railway operated a private, unsubsidized passenger service between Corpus Christi and Laredo which was fairly well-patronized, IIRC [More information here]. It may have been weekends-only. It operated for several years, but if it was not already gone by the time KCS purchased control of the line in 1995 it was certainly gone soon after.

ETA: Just looked it up in Trains. The service operated from 1985 through 1989, with a hiatus in the winter of 1988. There is a feature article on it in the January 1987 issue.

 

[dlagrua]

Cities like ... Oklahoma City ... haven't had passenger rail service for years.

What do you call the Heartland Flyer that goes between Ft. Worth and Oklahoma City DAILY then?

OK made a mistake so lets change that to Las Vegas as being one of the cities without passenger rail service..

 

[PRR 60]

Whoever made this claim (first private intercity service) is apparently unaware that in the late 1980s the Texas Mexican Railway operated a private, unsubsidized passenger service between Corpus Christi and Laredo which was fairly well-patronized, IIRC [More information here]. It may have been weekends-only. It operated for several years, but if it was not already gone by the time KCS purchased control of the line in 1995 it was certainly gone soon after.

ETA: Just looked it up in Trains. The service operated from 1985 through 1989, with a hiatus in the winter of 1988. There is a feature article on it in the January 1987 issue.

The punch line is that Iowa Pacific Holdings is headed by Ed Ellis. Ed Ellis is a former Amtrak VP. One would think that he would have some clue about the history of passenger rail in the Amtrak era. On the other hand, there are lots of Amtrak VP's who don't know how to spell "train", so maybe it's not surprising.

 

[Gratt]

OK OK I get the hang up on calling this the "first private intercity service" in decades but you have to admit in recent history this is something pretty unique.

That a scenic rail company would not only go out of its way to stop at an Amtrak station, but ad an additional train to connect with Amtrak passengers is kind of cool. I hope it gets them a lot of traffic and makes them think about going daily, and gets the attention of other scenic and short line rail companies who could potentially do the same thing (I am looking at you Grand canyon railway)

In addition I hope Amtrak would consider giving them a plug on their timetable or even their system map.

 

[ehbowen]

That a scenic rail company would not only go out of its way to stop at an Amtrak station, but ad an additional train to connect with Amtrak passengers is kind of cool. I hope it gets them a lot of traffic and makes them think about going daily, and gets the attention of other scenic and short line rail companies who could potentially do the same thing (I am looking at you Grand canyon railway)

I really don't see what more the Grand Canyon Railway could realistically do for passengers arriving/departing from the Southwest Chief. It is now impossible to reroute the SWC via the old route through Williams (the tracks between Ash Fork and Seligman were removed after the new alignment opened in 1965), so the only station at which a transfer could be made is the former (and current) Williams Junction station out in the middle of nowhere. The GCR Hotel already sends a shuttle van to connect with the Southwest Chief both ways for any passengers making connections. Are you calling on the GCR to relocate their hotel, shops, and dining facility to WmJ, plus build a new station, access roads and signage to direct customers (many of whom, like myself, would prefer to be in the middle of town)? Or do you expect the GCR to alter their schedule and operate rail service out to WmJ each morning and evening to connect with the SWC (Which would make it deuced inconvenient for customers, like myself in 2007, who choose to arrive in Williams by auto)? Last time I checked the Grand Canyon Railway was listed in Amtrak's timetable as an official connection, so that base is covered as well.

 

[jis]

Another tourist line that has been operating out of an Amtrak station for a while is the Adirondack Scenic, which operates out of Utica.

 

[Gratt]

That a scenic rail company would not only go out of its way to stop at an Amtrak station, but ad an additional train to connect with Amtrak passengers is kind of cool. I hope it gets them a lot of traffic and makes them think about going daily, and gets the attention of other scenic and short line rail companies who could potentially do the same thing (I am looking at you Grand canyon railway)

I really don't see what more the Grand Canyon Railway could realistically do for passengers arriving/departing from the Southwest Chief. It is now impossible to reroute the SWC via the old route through Williams (the tracks between Ash Fork and Seligman were removed after the new alignment opened in 1965), so the only station at which a transfer could be made is the former (and current) Williams Junction station out in the middle of nowhere. The GCR Hotel already sends a shuttle van to connect with the Southwest Chief both ways for any passengers making connections. Are you calling on the GCR to relocate their hotel, shops, and dining facility to WmJ, plus build a new station, access roads and signage to direct customers (many of whom, like myself, would prefer to be in the middle of town)? Or do you expect the GCR to alter their schedule and operate rail service out to WmJ each morning and evening to connect with the SWC (Which would make it deuced inconvenient for customers, like myself in 2007, who choose to arrive in Williams by auto)? Last time I checked the Grand Canyon Railway was listed in Amtrak's timetable as an official connection, so that base is covered as well.

I am big enough to admit I am wrong I was basing it more off the fact their was no same day connection, but given the odd hours the SWC gets into WMJ that is not reasonable.

As for Adirondack Scenic while nice it is nothing compared to what it could be if/when the train could go all the way to Lake Placid. And then the question remains could it make a same day connection with the ML or an Empire train to NYP.

 

[ehbowen]

I am big enough to admit I am wrong I was basing it more off the fact their was no same day connection, but given the odd hours the SWC gets into WMJ that is not reasonable.

Well, if you are coming from Los Angeles it is theoretically possible to arrive in Williams at 0-dark-thirty, have breakfast at the hotel, ride the train to the Canyon and back, have the dinner buffet back at the hotel, and then board the evening's SWC back to California leaving that same night. You are correct that if you are traveling through to or from California the schedule forces you to overnight in Williams...and if the Grand Canyon is your terminal destination and you are traveling from the east, make that two nights.

 

[Anderson]

What does the meal service look like, menu-wise? I'm asking because...well, I'm sorely tempted to make a trip up there at some point.

Do you guys ever bother to look up anything on the subject before posting away? Perhaps even at the specific link given in the first message of the thread?

Links to the menus appear at the bottom of the page. See https://www.sncrr.com/ . Go to the bottom and look in the "Trips" column.

I didn't see the link at the bottom. I'd looked at the "trips" link, but I didn't see that particular submenu (way at the bottom). It happens...but it wasn't well-marked; things that are way down at the bottom of the page do escape my notice at times.

Edit: Ok, I want to get inside these guys' books. How do they plan to make the dining service make sense if they have on-board cooking and all...yet their strip steak is only $11? Roll in the costs with higher fares?