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Protests continue for third day

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Urban Sky

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Sorry, hope you're not affected, but totally predictable.
I was outside the country on some family business for the last 3 days, so still catching up on my Emails, but I appreciate your concerns for me.

This only affects unionized staff (presumably those required to actually run the trains, such as Locomotive Engineers and On-Train Staff), whereas HQ staff like myself are unaffected, as our responsibilities don’t cease when operations do.

I wasn’t aware that there is such thing as “temporary layoffs” in Canada, but this situation seems to be covered by VIA’s collective agreements. I assume that affected employees can now apply for Employment Insurance, which seems to pay 55% of the average weekly average earnings (but no more than $573 per week)...
 
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cirdan

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Of course, the fact that the pipeline is being built for fossil fuel infrastructure isn't helping one bit. Movements like Extinction Rebellion have already decided to take direct action to stop fossil fuel infrastructure even where it's fully "legal", because if we don't stop it, it is going to destroy civilization.
I personally don't see why an organization claiming to be against fossil fuels has chosen to specifically harm trains, thus forcing more people to drive and more freight to be sent by truck.
 

MARC Rider

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I personally don't see why an organization claiming to be against fossil fuels has chosen to specifically harm trains, thus forcing more people to drive and more freight to be sent by truck.
Because they know if they successfully blocked the highways, you bet Mr. Trudeau would call out the Mounties, the army, etc. and do whatever it would take to clear the blockages as quickly as possible.

The effects of a rail blockage aren't as immediately obvious to the mass public as a road blockage would be. Blocking the rails puts pressure on the business community that relies on rail freight who can put pressure on the government without totally alienating the general public.
 

jiml

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They have blocked a couple of highways and bridges to the US. One estimate suggests that up to 90% of the protesters country-wide aren't even First Nations, but the "protest everywhere" climate crew that have been very prevalent lately. They interviewed several and many didn't even know where the pipeline is located or what it was carrying. The 5 chiefs who started this in BC are going against the 200 who agree with the proposal and stand to make their communities $1 billion CAD in business.

The bottom line is that those blocking the rail lines, etc., in the rest of the country are simply breaking the law. However, resolving it is a "lose-lose" situation for the politicians no matter how it turns out.
 

Skyline

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Feb 19, 2016
Messages
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They have blocked a couple of highways and bridges to the US. One estimate suggests that up to 90% of the protesters country-wide aren't even First Nations, but the "protest everywhere" climate crew that have been very prevalent lately. They interviewed several and many didn't even know where the pipeline is located or what it was carrying. The 5 chiefs who started this in BC are going against the 200 who agree with the proposal and stand to make their communities $1 billion CAD in business.

The bottom line is that those blocking the rail lines, etc., in the rest of the country are simply breaking the law. However, resolving it is a "lose-lose" situation for the politicians no matter how it turns out.
It shouldn't be surprising that non-natives are among the protesters. Most populous movements, on the left or right, are smart to build coalitions that support each other. It's also a common talking point to demonize this fact.
 

MARC Rider

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They have blocked a couple of highways and bridges to the US. One estimate suggests that up to 90% of the protesters country-wide aren't even First Nations, but the "protest everywhere" climate crew that have been very prevalent lately. They interviewed several and many didn't even know where the pipeline is located or what it was carrying. The 5 chiefs who started this in BC are going against the 200 who agree with the proposal and stand to make their communities $1 billion CAD in business.

The bottom line is that those blocking the rail lines, etc., in the rest of the country are simply breaking the law. However, resolving it is a "lose-lose" situation for the politicians no matter how it turns out.
Wait a second. Neroden has posted that, in the case of the BC pipeline at the center of this issue, the hereditary chiefs are OK with a pipeline, they just want it on a route that doesn't disturb their land. The pipeline company doesn't want that, because it will be more expensive. Presumably, if the pipleline company caved and built the pipeline where the hereditary chiefs want, that will be it as far as the First Nations are concerned, and the "climate crew" protesters will be hanging out to dry.

By the way, even though I, too agree that global climate change is a crisis that needs to be addressed, I think the tactics of the climate activists are not going to do anything to help out. Shutting down the Canadian economy is not going to convince Canadians that they should consume less or live more lightly on the land. The same applies in multiples south of the border here in the US. I'm not sure how to change hearts and minds, we might just need to wait and endure the climate catastrophe and then maybe people will come to their senses. All I can say is don't buy any coastal property.
 

jiml

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Wait a second. Neroden has posted that, in the case of the BC pipeline at the center of this issue, the hereditary chiefs are OK with a pipeline, they just want it on a route that doesn't disturb their land. The pipeline company doesn't want that, because it will be more expensive. Presumably, if the pipleline company caved and built the pipeline where the hereditary chiefs want, that will be it as far as the First Nations are concerned, and the "climate crew" protesters will be hanging out to dry.
The problem, which Neroden and the liberal media overlook, is that all the elected chiefs chose the current route to maximize the return to their constituencies. This is well-documented and easily searchable, but no one cares. It's not news. The old adage that "if it bleeds, it leads" still applies. Coverage of a pipeline being built peacefully with full First Nations' co-operation does not generate headlines or sympathy. The "pile-on" protesters were described the "new racists" in a column in today's National Post, taking the position that by their actions they are actually diminishing the earned rights of First Nations' people to have an active partnership in the development of their land.

Whichever side of the argument one agrees with does not change the fact that protests in wide-ranging other locations are illegal acts and should be dealt with accordingly. As mentioned previously, a shutdown of the NEC over a resources protest in the US west would not be tolerated. Let's compare apples with apples.
 

jiml

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For someone who claims to have no opinion you sure keep letting more and more of it slip out.
You have taken 4 separate comments out-of-context. I have no opinion on the original dispute in BC. I simply do not know enough about it. The other blockades are illegal acts by any definition.

The fringe elements are those who started blockades without the approval or sanction of their chiefs.

The protesters for rent are those who show up for any type of confrontation without any particular goal or allegiance. It started several years ago in Seattle (look it up), but occurs regularly on both sides of the border.

As in the US, we have liberal and conservative media. The more liberal media are the ones with headlines favoring one side without stating the complete facts. These are the sources being quoted as authoritative by others in this thread. The conservative media are also biased in the other direction. I read both. The truth is somewhere in the middle, and I have never said otherwise.
 

pennyk

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MODERATOR NOTE: Numerous political (off topic) comments were removed. Please keep comments on topic and avoid extraneous poliltical commentary. Thank you.
 

brianpmcdonnell17

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Are there any active blockades along the western routes? There is apparently a freight backlog at Vancouver and VIA isn't running in that area, but the focus seems to be on the blockades in the east. There was a new protest in Saskatoon, but trains are being allowed to pass. If there aren't any protests along the Western VIA lines, what needs to happen for them to reopen?
 

Rasputin

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There was a new blockade at Edmonton a couple days ago on CN but I don't know if it is still in effect.

I assume that before VIA restores service, they need some assurance that blockade season is over and a train won't be stranded en route by a sudden blockade. VIA does not want to have a few hundred passengers stranded at some remote location (or I guess at any location.)
 

brianpmcdonnell17

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There was a new blockade at Edmonton a couple days ago on CN but I don't know if it is still in effect.

I assume that before VIA restores service, they need some assurance that blockade season is over and a train won't be stranded en route by a sudden blockade. VIA does not want to have a few hundred passengers stranded at some remote location (or I guess at any location.)
That makes sense as to why the western trains are going to be the last to resume service. I'm also curious about the freight backlog though, as if it is severe CN may force VIA to postpone the resumption of service even if the blockades are no longer an issue. On their website, VIA updates the cancellation date to 7 days after the present date, although I'm not sure if that is to account for the freight or just hiring back the employees that were laid off and setting things up on their end.
 

Urban Sky

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That makes sense as to why the western trains are going to be the last to resume service. I'm also curious about the freight backlog though, as if it is severe CN may force VIA to postpone the resumption of service even if the blockades are no longer an issue. On their website, VIA updates the cancellation date to 7 days after the present date, although I'm not sure if that is to account for the freight or just hiring back the employees that were laid off and setting things up on their end.
Maybe it’s also to minimize the risk of notifying passengers that their train has been cancelled only after they’ve already boarded the plane to start a vacation of which the Canadian might have been the centerpiece...
 

Anderson

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Is the Cascades operating normally? (It seems fair to ask at this point considering the dumpster fire that is the rest of this situation...)

And I suspect that the seven-day thing is down to...well, a bit of everything, including out-of-rotation equipment. I'm currently having to figure out how I plan to get back from Vancouver if the Canadian gets axed for the rest of next week.

(It has occurred to me that one solution would be to bust up the blockages...but to promptly release any First Nations folks involved while detaining "sympathizers" so as to throw the book at the "rent-a-mob" crowd. If nothing else, bagging them here would create a paper trail that could be used if some of them just seem to be showing up everywhere there's a protest.)
 

brianpmcdonnell17

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Is the Cascades operating normally? (It seems fair to ask at this point considering the dumpster fire that is the rest of this situation...)

And I suspect that the seven-day thing is down to...well, a bit of everything, including out-of-rotation equipment. I'm currently having to figure out how I plan to get back from Vancouver if the Canadian gets axed for the rest of next week.

(It has occurred to me that one solution would be to bust up the blockages...but to promptly release any First Nations folks involved while detaining "sympathizers" so as to throw the book at the "rent-a-mob" crowd. If nothing else, bagging them here would create a paper trail that could be used if some of them just seem to be showing up everywhere there's a protest.)
The Cascades and Maple Leaf are running normally. The protest south of Montreal has been cleared, so I would expect the Adirondack to resume normal service as well.
 

Rasputin

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Have we reached the point where the list of what's running is longer than the list of what's not running? I don't think so yet but the situation seems to change day by day.
 

Urban Sky

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Aug 23, 2018
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Have we reached the point where the list of what's running is longer than the list of what's not running? I don't think so yet but the situation seems to change day by day.
Not yet:

Running (44):
20
22
24
25
26
28
29
33
34
35
37
38
39
51 (MTRL-OTTW)
70
71
72
73
75
76
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
87
88
97
98
185
186
622
624
633
635
637
639
690
691
692 (CHUR-TPAS)
693 (TPAS-CHUR)

Not running (52):
1
2
5
6
14
15
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51 (OTTW-TRTO)
52
53
54
55
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
600
601
602
603
604
606
641
643
644
645
646
647
650
651
655
668
669
692 (TPAS-WNPG)
693 (WNPG-TPAS)

Note that this is neither an official nor definite list...
 

brianpmcdonnell17

Conductor
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Messages
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The Ocean is resuming service on February 28th. No update has been given on the Toronto-Ottawa and Toronto-Montreal routes, despite the main blockade being cleared this morning. The routes going north of Montreal and the western routes also remain cancelled.
 
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