Seating questions

[steve bicks]

I have a question regarding seating. I am from the UK and have just purchased my first ticket for travel on Amtrak, I'm going from New York to Tampa. The main reason for travelling by train was because I wanted to get the chance to see a bit of the country outside of the tourist areas. My ticket states that I have a reserved seat, does this mean that I have a specific seat which is reserved for me, if so then how can I find out which seat I have, or is it first come first served on the day. The reason this is an issue for me is as already stated my whole purpose is to see some of the country so I don't want to be stuck in a seat with no view. I hope I make sense, thanks in advance for any assistance.

 

[Neil_M]

I have a question regarding seating. I am from the UK and have just purchased my first ticket for travel on Amtrak, I'm going from New York to Tampa. The main reason for travelling by train was because I wanted to get the chance to see a bit of the country outside of the tourist areas. My ticket states that I have a reserved seat, does this mean that I have a specific seat which is reserved for me, if so then how can I find out which seat I have, or is it first come first served on the day. The reason this is an issue for me is as already stated my whole purpose is to see some of the country so I don't want to be stuck in a seat with no view. I hope I make sense, thanks in advance for any assistance.

Amtrak doesn't reserve specific seats like in the UK or Europe, you get assigned a seat or coach by the conductor when you get on. Depends on where you get on and how busy the train is as to your luck in getting a window seat. Get on at the start of the train's journey and be first in the queue and you should be fine!

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

I have a question regarding seating. I am from the UK and have just purchased my first ticket for travel on Amtrak, I'm going from New York to Tampa. The main reason for travelling by train was because I wanted to get the chance to see a bit of the country outside of the tourist areas. My ticket states that I have a reserved seat, does this mean that I have a specific seat which is reserved for me, if so then how can I find out which seat I have, or is it first come first served on the day. The reason this is an issue for me is as already stated my whole purpose is to see some of the country so I don't want to be stuck in a seat with no view. I hope I make sense, thanks in advance for any assistance.

Well, fortunately you are boarding in NYP. That is the beginning point for train #91's trip to FL and points in between. I presume you are traveling in coach so ask the attendant if you may be seated next to a window. If he/she is able to do so, then they may oblige. And being it is at the first stop of NYP should make it a little easier for the attendant. However, keep in mind that you are seated according to your destination, and if they are not able to deviate from the agreed loading plan for that day, you may have to accept an aisle seat. The nice thing about that is you wouldn't have to crawl over someone to get in or out of your seat, and you still have the window available to see out of. And you still have the ability to go to the lounge car and sit next to a window there. The only thing I personally don't like about the aisle seat is you have that person crawling over you to get in and out of their seat, and the fact it is a little easier to sleep in the seat next to the window IMO.

If your sleep is an issue, I would seriously check into an upgrade ASAP and go sleeper class where you have the privacy of your own room and meals are included for the meal periods you are on the train for, but the price will be extra of course and I don't know how you are regarding your budget. But you still have use of the lounge car in any event. And the fact you will leave NYP during daylight, and it will be dark by the time you get down into the Carolinas and Georgia. It will light again by the time you reach JAX Florida whereas you will be about five and half hours from Tampa. So a huge chunk of this trip will be in darkness, anyway.

If you have any other questions, just give us a holler on here and one of us will tackle it for you. We're more than happy to be of assistance.

OBS gone freight...

 

[Everydaymatters]

Sleeping is easier in a window seat. The upside for the aisle seat is that you can easily see out of the windows on both sides of the train, as long as you're not too close to the front of the car. That probably doesn't sound like a big benefit, but, for instance, if the train is in the station. The view out the left might be more of the same farmland you've just traveled through. The right side could be the train station and the town.

No matter which seat you're in, you win.

 

[ScottC4746]

I have a question regarding seating. I am from the UK and have just purchased my first ticket for travel on Amtrak, I'm going from New York to Tampa. The main reason for travelling by train was because I wanted to get the chance to see a bit of the country outside of the tourist areas. My ticket states that I have a reserved seat, does this mean that I have a specific seat which is reserved for me, if so then how can I find out which seat I have, or is it first come first served on the day. The reason this is an issue for me is as already stated my whole purpose is to see some of the country so I don't want to be stuck in a seat with no view. I hope I make sense, thanks in advance for any assistance.

Looks like you will have a great trip.

I assume you do not have to change in Orlando to a coach correct? Either way you will have one night on the train. I understand that the exchange rate may play an issue but upgrade upgrade upgrade.

A roomette you receive:

Meals included

Two berths (upper and lower)

Two reclining seats which convert to a bed; upper berth which folds down from wall

Picture window

Sink and toilet in room

Showers nearby

Electrical outlets

Climate control

Individual reading lights

Garment rack

Fold-down table

Fresh towels and bed linens

Soap and shower amenities

Personal service (turn-down, coffee, paper, make-up bed)

Bottled water

Daily newspaper

and the messurement is:

Room:

3'6" x 6'8"

Lower Berth:

2'4" x 6'6"

Upper Berth:

2'4" x 6'2"

Capacity for two small suitcases and garment bag.

A bedroom you get:

Meals included

Space for two adults (maximum of three, with two children or smaller persons sharing the lower berth)

Private enclosed restroom in cabin with sink, vanity, toilet

Private, self-enclosed shower in the cabin

Upper and lower berths

Sofa (converts to lower berth)

Upper berth folds down from wall

Separate armchair

Can be combined in to a Suite

Electrical outlets

Climate control

Individual reading lights

Garment rack

Fold-down table

Fresh towels and bed linens

Soap and, shower amenities

Personal service (turn-down, coffee, paper, make-up bed)

Bottled water

Daily newspaper

and measures:

Room:

6'8" x 7'1"

Lower Berth:

3'4" x 6'0"

Upper Berth:

2'4" x 6'2"

Capacity for two suitcases

My reccomendation if you can afford it is upgrade now.

You still can take of meals in the diner or cafe car but they can be expensive. The meals that come with sleepers is from the diner only. Plus another perk is you have access to the ClubAcela pre departure lounge in New York where you can wait in comfort rather than the standard departure hall. In ClubAcela you receive:

Complimentary soft drinks, juice, pastries, and snacks

Comfortable, quiet lounge seating

A selection of newspapers and periodicals

Credit card long-distance telephones with data ports for computer usage

Complimentary use of photocopy and fax machines

Complimentary Internet access

Conference rooms equipped with speaker phones and VCRs available for rental

Information on local dining and entertainment options

Friendly staff to assist with Amtrak reservations and ticketing

Just show your same day Amtrak Sleeper ticket for access.

This may be overkill, but hope this helps.

 

[ScottC4746]

Oh and I forgot...if you do upgrade...bring duct tape. That is to tape down the edges of curtains that keep jiggling open or to tape down cabinetry that squeeks or rattles. Amtrak fleet is not that old, but never hurts to be prepared.

 

[had8ley]

Oh and I forgot...if you do upgrade...bring duct tape. That is to tape down the edges of curtains that keep jiggling open or to tape down cabinetry that squeeks or rattles. Amtrak fleet is not that old, but never hurts to be prepared.

Scott;

Good suggestion . We used to have to tape the doors and windows on the engines it would get so cold from the cracks.

 

[Guest]

Two reclining seats which convert to a bed; upper berth which folds down from wall Picture window

On the Viewliner, the upper berth pulls straight down from the ceiling area, not the wall. And there is not only a picture window at the seat level, but there is also another large window for the upper berth.

 

[ATSFNewton]

The other positive about a sleeper is that you're ASSURED a decent seat. I had a weird experience traveling eastbound on the SWC this past Saturday. Boarded at 3 a.m. and was given a seat in coach. Went to the diner for breakfast at 6:30 a.m. During breakfast, we traveled through KC and boarded passengers. When I returned to my coach seat from breakfast, my seat had been given to other passengers and my luggage moved. I spent the rest of the trip to Chicago getting shuttled around to various seats and even the lounge car when no seats were available. The chair car attendant admitted to reassigning my seat but never really could explain why. A sleeper is worth it if you want your own assigned space.

 

[dan72]

The other positive about a sleeper is that you're ASSURED a decent seat. I had a weird experience traveling eastbound on the SWC this past Saturday. Boarded at 3 a.m. and was given a seat in coach. Went to the diner for breakfast at 6:30 a.m. During breakfast, we traveled through KC and boarded passengers. When I returned to my coach seat from breakfast, my seat had been given to other passengers and my luggage moved. I spent the rest of the trip to Chicago getting shuttled around to various seats and even the lounge car when no seats were available. The chair car attendant admitted to reassigning my seat but never really could explain why. A sleeper is worth it if you want your own assigned space.

Wow, I have to say that's pretty lousy treatment. It's one thing if they move you once (although I would expect the attendant to have a good explanation). But moving you around after that and even into the lounge car is unacceptable - especially after they move you while you were gone the first time.

 

[MrFSS]

The other positive about a sleeper is that you're ASSURED a decent seat. I had a weird experience traveling eastbound on the SWC this past Saturday. Boarded at 3 a.m. and was given a seat in coach. Went to the diner for breakfast at 6:30 a.m. During breakfast, we traveled through KC and boarded passengers. When I returned to my coach seat from breakfast, my seat had been given to other passengers and my luggage moved. I spent the rest of the trip to Chicago getting shuttled around to various seats and even the lounge car when no seats were available. The chair car attendant admitted to reassigning my seat but never really could explain why. A sleeper is worth it if you want your own assigned space.

Wow, I have to say that's pretty lousy treatment. It's one thing if they move you once (although I would expect the attendant to have a good explanation). But moving you around after that and even into the lounge car is unacceptable - especially after they move you while you were gone the first time.

I rode the TE from Chicago to Bloomington, IL two years ago. A short trip, but they were really short of seats as the St Louis only car was bad ordered. They asked me to sit in the sightseer car for the short trip as they were really clamoring around for any seats they could get. Was fine with me. I was able to be there when the train pulled out of CUS and see all the yards, etc on both sides. I was the only one in the car for about 15 minutes. My own private car.

 

[Tony]

When I returned to my coach seat from breakfast, my seat had been given to other passengers and my luggage moved.

Sorry, but I would call that inexcusable treatment by the Attendant and the Conductor.

Especially without even extending to you, the courtesy of asking first.

Very, very disrespectful !

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

This is the first time I have heard of the car attendant moving someone and their luggage while the were in the diner. To the best of my memory the only reason a car attendant moves anyone is to accommodate a family sitting together.

 

[ATSFNewton]

It was clearly a new one for me; I've traveled this route and others countless times. I do know that at KC the train really filled up with passengers, plus the second coach car had some sort of tour group for which the crew seemed to be protecting seats. I'm guessing the challenge was to get couples and families seated together, and as a solo traveler I just happened to draw the short straw.

Last summer my son and niece traveled from Topeka to Newton and were put into the lounge because the crew claimed they had no coach seats. But I rather suspect they didn't want to wake people up who may have been sprawled across two seats. Not a huge deal, but at 1:30 in the morning one tends to want a soft seat that reclines.

Nevertheless, Amtrak service still scores high in my book, despite the few exceptions.

 

[the_traveler]

This is the first time I have heard of the car attendant moving someone and their luggage while the were in the diner.

I too had that happen to me years ago. I forget the exact circumstances, but I was on one of the Silvers with my mother and sister and when we returned from dinner (I believe) our seats were taken and our bags got moved! :angry:

 

[GG-1]

This is the first time I have heard of the car attendant moving someone and their luggage while the were in the diner.

I too had that happen to me years ago. I forget the exact circumstances, but I was on one of the Silvers with my mother and sister and when we returned from dinner (I believe) our seats were taken and our bags got moved! :angry:

Well now that's 2, I sure would not want the responsibility for moving someones stuff while they were not there unless the stuff was, or placement, was a hazard.

Aloha

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

The other positive about a sleeper is that you're ASSURED a decent seat. I had a weird experience traveling eastbound on the SWC this past Saturday. Boarded at 3 a.m. and was given a seat in coach. Went to the diner for breakfast at 6:30 a.m. During breakfast, we traveled through KC and boarded passengers. When I returned to my coach seat from breakfast, my seat had been given to other passengers and my luggage moved. I spent the rest of the trip to Chicago getting shuttled around to various seats and even the lounge car when no seats were available. The chair car attendant admitted to reassigning my seat but never really could explain why. A sleeper is worth it if you want your own assigned space.

Wow, I have to say that's pretty lousy treatment. It's one thing if they move you once (although I would expect the attendant to have a good explanation). But moving you around after that and even into the lounge car is unacceptable - especially after they move you while you were gone the first time.

AlohaThis is the first time I have heard of the car attendant moving someone and their luggage while the were in the diner. To the best of my memory the only reason a car attendant moves anyone is to accommodate a family sitting together.

I have heard instances similar to this before. However, I never made such moves as an attendant on my own unless the passenger was merely in the wrong seat (or intentionally moved on their own without my permission). Under that circumstance, I have had to move someones baggage and seat while they were away. However, that should be the case only in those circumstances.

An attendant shouldn't just take liberty to move a single passenger's (or any to be frank) in order to accommodate others unless all parties are in agreement. And the passengers who are already on the train are within their rights to maintain the seats assigned to them mostly because it is expected and the fact no one really wants to have to move after getting settled in for a trip. So unfortunately the situation itself called for splitting folks traveling together during crowded positions. Seating is still on a first come first served basis, and it is important for attendants to be sure they have a well thought out loading plan for the duration of the trip. I occasionally had to split parties up when it was crowded, but I always made the best and earliest attempt to seat those folks together when I was able to do so. If there were small children involved I would then ask for volunteers, but truth be said there was really no way I could "require" it to be done! While employed at Amtrak as an attendant I had the Florida trains down to an art form in regard to seating and loading plans, and as long as I had a strong partner attendant in the other section I generally didn't have any troubles (even in most crowded conditions). There was one attendant who between her and myself, we could deviate back and forth with the agreed upon loading plan, and keep the passengers accommodated with little or no effort!

So to ATSFNewton, don't allow an attendant to do that to you again. While it may have pleased several other parties, your seat and situation was involved, and you were not permitted a say in that. And that my friend is not good customer service. The attendant was probably new or just wasn't aware of the ending results of his/her actions, but now you know.

Tony, we can't really put this on the conductor based on what we know here. Only if the conductor had to step in and be involved due to a disagreement between said attendant and passenger would he/she have some responsibility in this case. The conductor's primary responsibility is to oversee the actual safe operation of the train from point A to B for which he/she is assigned. Even though conductors are still the head of the train, the coach train attendants are in charge of seating on the train unless they are not present at all (in other words a train with no attendant), in which the conductor then takes that responsibility.

OBS gone freight...

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

This is the first time I have heard of the car attendant moving someone and their luggage while the were in the diner.

I too had that happen to me years ago. I forget the exact circumstances, but I was on one of the Silvers with my mother and sister and when we returned from dinner (I believe) our seats were taken and our bags got moved! :angry:

Well now that's 2, I sure would not want the responsibility for moving someones stuff while they were not there unless the stuff was, or placement, was a hazard.

Aloha

And one thing we must keep in mind, I have had passengers on their own move other people's stuff and change seats without my permission on several occasions. With me as the attendant, however, they didn't get away with for very long (no more than an hour or so). And depending on how they handled it after they were notified of the fact that isn't permissible without my permission, I would either work with them or require them to move back to their assigned seat. Pretty much if they were "humble" about it, I would just simply work with them. And if another passenger was involved they would have been in agreement with my intentions or otherwise I wouldn't act in a manner which is adverse to that passenger. A good attendant chooses his/her battles accordingly!

So the same thing for you "the traveler," don't allow an attendant to do something like that to you. If you and the attendant can't come to an agreement, then speak with the conductor or take it up with customer service after the trip.

OBS gone freight...

 

[Everydaymatters]

This is the first time I have heard of the car attendant moving someone and their luggage while the were in the diner.

I too had that happen to me years ago. I forget the exact circumstances, but I was on one of the Silvers with my mother and sister and when we returned from dinner (I believe) our seats were taken and our bags got moved! :angry:

Well now that's 2, I sure would not want the responsibility for moving someones stuff while they were not there unless the stuff was, or placement, was a hazard.

Aloha

While my luggage wasn't moved, a couple of months ago the car attendant came down to the lounge cafe to tell me he had put someone in my seat because she was elderly! I was moved to the upper level. When I went down to retrieve my things from the seat I had been in, I found out that there was a lady in lower level who refused to move because she paid good money to ride in the lower level. She was the youngest person on the lower level and appeared to be in the best health! But she screamed the loudest. Oh was she ever a witch! It was exasperating for me with lung issues. By the time I got to the new upper level seat, I couldn't talk for quite a while until I was able to breath normally again. To top it off, my new seat had leg rests that didn't work. There was more stuff involving the move, but you folks don't want to read a book here.

 

[PRR 60]

Amtrak needs specific seat assignments for the long distance trains. The pre-Amtrak railroads did it with minimal computer involvement: Amtrak could do it today. A family of four that booked months in advance should not have to worry whether they will be seated together, and once seated, you should not be moved involuntarily.

 

[Neil_M]

Amtrak needs specific seat assignments for the long distance trains. The pre-Amtrak railroads did it with minimal computer involvement: Amtrak could do it today. A family of four that booked months in advance should not have to worry whether they will be seated together, and once seated, you should not be moved involuntarily.

Virtually every other railway in Europe can do this with minimal effort, as can the airlines. Shuffling people around is just limp behaviour...

 

[jackal]

There is one argument that I haven't really seen discussed in favor of Amtrak's method of unassigned seats: it allows a higher utilization of capacity.Seats on an airline can be preassigned with no loss of capacity because everyone on the airplane is traveling from point A to point B, and everyone disembarks at the same time.On a train, there's a lot of turnover on the route.

Now, I didn't major in logic (nor did I ever actually take a logic course in college), but it seems logical to me that preassigning seats could result in some routes being unavailable to book even though there are technically empty seats on the entirety of the route in question.

Consider the following example of a train with three seats which are pre-assigned between given city pairs:

   Cities AAA-----BBB-----CCC-----DDD-----EEE-----FFF-----GGG
  Seat 1 xxx-------------xxx
  Seat 2						  xxx--------------------xxx
  Seat 3				 xxx-------------xxx

Technically, there is space on the train available for someone wanting to board at BBB and detrain at FFF (Seat 2 is available until DDD and Seat 1 is available from CCC to FFF), but since there are no seats that are open for the entire length of the journey being booked, the system will return an error that the train is sold out.

The customer could book a seat from BBB to DDD in Seat 2 and then DDD to EEE in Seat 1 (or another similar combination), but unless the system were set up to spit out two separate tickets and have him change seats in the middle of the journey (HIGHLY unlikely, I'd guess), he'd have no way of knowing where to split his reservation to secure seats.

The same logic can be applied to working around fare buckets. Consider the following example of a six-seat train, where each seat represents one of six fare buckets:

   Cities AAA-----BBB-----CCC-----DDD-----EEE-----FFF-----GGG
  Seat 1				 xxx-----xxx
  Seat 2				 xxx-----xxx
  Seat 3				 xxx-----xxx
  Seat 4				 xxx-----xxx
  Seat 5				 xxx-----xxx
  Seat 6 xxx-------------------------------------xxx

Amtrak's current software would assign the person in Seat 6 the highest fare bucket, because for the section between CCC and DDD, he is taking the last seat on the train.

However, if the customer booking Seat 6 knew that the section between CCC and DDD were booked to 5/6 capacity, he could potentially save a lot of money by booking like this:

	 Cities AAA-----BBB-----CCC-----DDD-----EEE-----FFF-----GGG
 Seat 1				 xxx-----xxx
 Seat 2				 xxx-----xxx
 Seat 3				 xxx-----xxx
 Seat 4				 xxx-----xxx
 Seat 5				 xxx-----xxx
 Seat 6 xxx-------------xxx-----xxx-------------xxx

By splitting his reservation into three parts, he would only be paying the highest bucket on the short segment between CCC and DDD. He would be paying low bucket on the segments from AAA to CCC and DDD to FFF.

I've always been lucky enough to find seats available at low bucket, so I've never tried this for myself, but it's an idea I've thought about using if I ever couldn't find low-bucket seats for a given route I needed to take. It would take a LOT of trial and error to locate the segment that was driving the fare into the higher buckets, though!

 

[Everydaymatters]

Seeing it in the way you presented it makes me understand the problem better. I'm sure Amtrak has the know-how to work it out so nobody has to be re-assigned or sit in the lounge car. I don't understand why they don't address the problem.

 

[sky12065]

There is one argument that I haven't really seen discussed in favor of Amtrak's method of unassigned seats: it allows a higher utilization of capacity.Seats on an airline can be preassigned with no loss of capacity because everyone on the airplane is traveling from point A to point B, and everyone disembarks at the same time.On a train, there's a lot of turnover on the route.
Now, I didn't major in logic (nor did I ever actually take a logic course in college), but it seems logical to me that preassigning seats could result in some routes being unavailable to book even though there are technically empty seats on the entirety of the route in question.

{message truncated}

Excellent post! It demonstrates that seat assignment would not necessarily resolve the shuffling of people.

In your mentioning of airline pre-assignment, I couldn't help think that airlines frequently bounce passengers because they overbook to maximize revenues.

If Amtrak moved to assigned seating, how long would it take for the Amtrak powers-to-be to start looking at the no show statistics then start overbooking too? I don't think that the effect would necessarily be similar to airlines where you would actually be bounced from boarding the train, but at best (or worse) it could increase the "shuffling around" rather than resolve it.

And as for the claim by others that another country can pre-assign seats without any problems, creditability in comparison can only exist if one's comparing trains of similar distances and stops. Otherwise the comparison leaves reasonable doubts in the postulation.

 

[Neil_M]

There is one argument that I haven't really seen discussed in favor of Amtrak's method of unassigned seats: it allows a higher utilization of capacity.Seats on an airline can be preassigned with no loss of capacity because everyone on the airplane is traveling from point A to point B, and everyone disembarks at the same time.On a train, there's a lot of turnover on the route.
Now, I didn't major in logic (nor did I ever actually take a logic course in college), but it seems logical to me that preassigning seats could result in some routes being unavailable to book even though there are technically empty seats on the entirety of the route in question.

Consider the following example of a train with three seats which are pre-assigned between given city pairs:

   Cities AAA-----BBB-----CCC-----DDD-----EEE-----FFF-----GGG
  Seat 1 xxx-------------xxx
  Seat 2						  xxx--------------------xxx
  Seat 3				 xxx-------------xxx

Technically, there is space on the train available for someone wanting to board at BBB and detrain at FFF (Seat 2 is available until DDD and Seat 1 is available from CCC to FFF), but since there are no seats that are open for the entire length of the journey being booked, the system will return an error that the train is sold out.

The customer could book a seat from BBB to DDD in Seat 2 and then DDD to EEE in Seat 1 (or another similar combination), but unless the system were set up to spit out two separate tickets and have him change seats in the middle of the journey (HIGHLY unlikely, I'd guess), he'd have no way of knowing where to split his reservation to secure seats.

Surely though just 1 seat would be used for AAA to CCC and DDD to FFF, not 2 seats? Using your example undersells the train by a third...

What you say makes a lot of sense, but the question then is how does Amtrak's system declare a train as 'Sold Out'? If the system can work that out, why can't it allocate seats in a more specific style?