Semi-Inverted Second Crescent?

[Anderson]

Were there plans out there that would have shoved the Builder to 20 cars (not counting PVs)? Also, wouldn't a train that long need at least some additional food service capacity? Even in coach, you'd have both the issue of "the walk" (having to walk 10 cars to get food), not to mention the sheer passenger load on either the diner or the cafe. Remember, when Amtrak ran the super-CONO a year or two ago, there was a second cafe.

 

[AlanB]

I'm not aware of any plans to make the builder approach 20 cars. The talked about plan was to add for certain, 1 CCC (takes care of the increased food service capacity) and 1 sleeper to the bulk of the existing Portland section and 1 more sleeper to the Seattle section. The SSL would have stopped going to Portland and started running to Seattle. There were rumblings of perhaps adding coaches too, but I never saw any serious talk of that from reliable sources. But the serious additions would have brought the train up to 14 cars, not including the bag, but including the short haul MSP coach.

 

[henryj]

Henryj wrote:

Connect Fort Worth/Dallas to Denver. Restore the Broadway Limited. Extend St Louis/KC service to Denver on the west end and Wash DC east. When you get through with all that, then we can discuss second trains on various routes.

Henry -- Ah shucks, daydreaming is fun! But now that you mention DFW/DEN, what sort of service has that city pair ever had? Best I can tell from my Well-Worn Handy RR Atlas of the US (1978) C&S ran from Cheyenne through Denver and Colorado Springs to at least Trinidad and maybe on to Dalhart, TX. From there it was FW &D to Fort Worth. (The NM and TX maps disagree as to who owned the Trinidad/Dalhart section - maybe they shared?

In any case, was there ever a through train? Sleeper? Seems possible that there's never been decent service DFW/DEN. Just curious.

Well for 25 years the C&S/FW&D ran the Texas Zephyr as a basically overnight train between Denver and DFW and ran a second train, #7&8 on the opposite schedule. Both carried sleepers and a diner. After 1956 the old Denver Zephyr equipment was refurbished and ran as the Texas Zephyr. All was discontinued by 1965. So there has been no service on the route since then. BNSF has done major work on the route and it is now full of coal trains. The route could easily accommodate the one train a day, but of course there is the little problem with equipment and money. lol.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Henryj wrote:

Connect Fort Worth/Dallas to Denver. Restore the Broadway Limited. Extend St Louis/KC service to Denver on the west end and Wash DC east. When you get through with all that, then we can discuss second trains on various routes.

Henry -- Ah shucks, daydreaming is fun! But now that you mention DFW/DEN, what sort of service has that city pair ever had? Best I can tell from my Well-Worn Handy RR Atlas of the US (1978) C&S ran from Cheyenne through Denver and Colorado Springs to at least Trinidad and maybe on to Dalhart, TX. From there it was FW &D to Fort Worth. (The NM and TX maps disagree as to who owned the Trinidad/Dalhart section - maybe they shared?

In any case, was there ever a through train? Sleeper? Seems p ossibl e that there's never been decent service DFW/DEN. Just curious.

Yes,a 1957 Official Guide shows two decent Burlington trains a day Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo. .Amarilla,Childress

, Quana,, wichita falls, fort worth,dallas.