Sleepers at end of train?

[AmtrakCrescent20]

I read on another board that several long distance trains would start running with sleepers on the rear of the train. Does anyone have any details or know which trains this affects?

 

[AmtrakFan]

AmtkCrescent20,

I do know 11/14 are going to be doing this, a friend reported this to me.

 

[Larry H.]

I certianly hope it is true, I have never liked the sleepers up front.. I think for my self it is a selfish reason, I think its safer.. the City of New Orleans wreck killed a lot of people in the sleeper due to its location. I recall that the old Pullman cars used to have a sign on the wall in the car that told how many years it had been since a Pullman passenger had been killed.. I think that was partly due to the location at the rear. Many old photos of wrecks show a jumble at the front and the rear still on the tracks. Not that a rear end collison couldn't happen, they have. I also liked the sort of isolation the rear of the train had.

 

[NativeSon5859]

I'm sort of split down the middle on this one. Generally I like the sleepers to be at the back so that I can get a good view from behind the train with ease as well as to get a good view of the head end of the train going around a curve; however, I've always sort of liked to hear the train's whistle more prominently, and being up front certainly has that advantage! The closet i've ever been to the loco in a sleeping car was on the first Sunset out of NOLA following Katrina. I was in the only sleeping car on the train at the time (transition sleeper) right behind the two locos. Not overly loud all things considered.

 

[Anthony]

I remember 11/14 in 1996 had the sleepers on the very end.

 

[battalion51]

Your philosophy really makes no difference. In a bad wreck lives may be lost regardless of where people are on the train. Look at the Auto Train wreck, almost every passenger car hit the ground, and the ones that didn't were at the head end of the train. I know someone who was nearly buried alive in rocks in that wreck, and he was 7 or 8 cars deep in the train, where the sleepers would be in the new formation on the average train. The ultimate reality is that there is no safer way to travel than by train, and the folks who have the largest risk for losing their lives are the folks on the head end.

 

[printman2000]

Your philosophy really makes no difference. In a bad wreck lives may be lost regardless of where people are on the train. Look at the Auto Train wreck, almost every passenger car hit the ground, and the ones that didn't were at the head end of the train. I know someone who was nearly buried alive in rocks in that wreck, and he was 7 or 8 cars deep in the train, where the sleepers would be in the new formation on the average train. The ultimate reality is that there is no safer way to travel than by train, and the folks who have the largest risk for losing their lives are the folks on the head end.

I know nothing of this, but when I think about the auto train, it seems with all that weight BEHIND the train (in the car carriers), that could make a big difference. If you were on a train without all the weight behind you, seems the chances would be better of staying on the rails towards the read of the train.

 

[AlanB]

Your philosophy really makes no difference. In a bad wreck lives may be lost regardless of where people are on the train. Look at the Auto Train wreck, almost every passenger car hit the ground, and the ones that didn't were at the head end of the train. I know someone who was nearly buried alive in rocks in that wreck, and he was 7 or 8 cars deep in the train, where the sleepers would be in the new formation on the average train. The ultimate reality is that there is no safer way to travel than by train, and the folks who have the largest risk for losing their lives are the folks on the head end.

I know nothing of this, but when I think about the auto train, it seems with all that weight BEHIND the train (in the car carriers), that could make a big difference. If you were on a train without all the weight behind you, seems the chances would be better of staying on the rails towards the read of the train.

Weight means nothing if there are no rails underneath the car. And that's what happened with the Auto Train wreck, the rails spread apart because of heating from the sun and poor work by CSX, so the wheels just dropped right off the rails.

 

[Guest]

Worth noting is that - because of the sliding privacy doors - exiting from a damaged sleeper is far more difficult than from a coach.

Also, today the Coast Starlight went out with sleepers at the rear - purely a logistical decision based on the lack of an available transition sleeper.

 

[battalion51]

The logistics have nothing to do with it. If no transition sleeper is available, or used, this simply means that the Conductor/AC has to access the baggage car from the outside or from the engine. It is also safer for the baggage car and sleeper to be together, because most crews will have one person work the baggage and sleepers, while the other works the coaches. The bag car and sleepers together make it so that he doesn't have to constantly walk the train, and he has better visibility of the sleepers.

 

[AlanB]

It might also have been done to minimize the amount of exhaust from the engines penetrating the sleepers. Many pax have complained about this issue, when a trans dorm doesn't lead the sleepers. Better to keep the high paying sleeper pax happy by putting them on the rear to avoid the exhaust, than the lower paying coach pax.

 

[MrFSS]

It might also have been done to minimize the amount of exhaust from the engines penetrating the sleepers. Many pax have complained about this issue, when a trans dorm doesn't lead the sleepers. Better to keep the high paying sleeper pax happy by putting them on the rear to avoid the exhaust, than the lower paying coach pax.

Like the famous dialog from the original movie, MASH. One surgeon to another while working on a patient, "is he an officer or an enlisted man?"
"Enlisted man."

"Make the stitches big."

 

[Everydaymatters]

This conversation gives me a different perspective. I had always been nervous in the last car of a train - be it a local commuter train or Amtrak.

The main reason I started traveling by train was around 1978 there was a train accident which was the worst ever at that time. There were survivors. Many of them. That sold me on train travel.

On my first Amtrak trip, the train hit a car. The train passengers were not at all affected, other than a delay while the wreckage was being cleared.

 

[Trogdor]

Which Coast Starlight went out with sleepers on the rear?

There was some freight train accident in Washington which canceled the Portland-Seattle service a day or two ago. One report I read said the Starlight turned in Eugene (didn't make sense to me, considering the freight collision was somewhere south of Tacoma; but anyway...). If that's the case, then there probably was no place to wye the whole train, so it went down backwards. That is, if the train in question was southbound (the post didn't really say).

 

[AmtrakFan]

Mr. Madison it was 14(13).

 

[Trogdor]

If it was train 14(13), that wouldn't quite jive with the guest's post that said "today the Coast Starlight went out with sleepers on the rear..." That post was made on the 17th.

 

[had8ley]

I'm sort of split down the middle on this one. Generally I like the sleepers to be at the back so that I can get a good view from behind the train with ease as well as to get a good view of the head end of the train going around a curve; however, I've always sort of liked to hear the train's whistle more prominently, and being up front certainly has that advantage! The closet i've ever been to the loco in a sleeping car was on the first Sunset out of NOLA following Katrina. I was in the only sleeping car on the train at the time (transition sleeper) right behind the two locos. Not overly loud all things considered.

The lack of usable baggage cars (that have literally had the wheels worn off of them) has led to some consists that I don't believe should exist. If you look at the Genesis locomotive exhaust stacks they belch exhaust right into the vestibule of the high level Superliners. I have witnessed, more than once, where the sleeper has had to be evacuated for the smell of diesel fumes and exhaust. Remember, a lot of these locomotives are running thousands of miles with just fuel fill ups and daily inspection cards signed off on. Perhaps a carman will change a brake shoe occassionally but no one measures the exhaust fumes while the engine is idling in the station. It is only when the throttle is put in notch # 8 that you realize that you have a real "smoker." If I want to hear the whistle I'll walk to a coach on the head end. Otherwise put the sleepers where they were for almost a hundred years~ on the hind end.

Something that just came to mind; about the same time as the material handling cars showed up the sleepers got turned around. We picked up 15 cars of beer in San Antonio on the Sunset and were in bedroom A on the hind end. The run in and run out from the weight of the loaded beer cars kept us up all night. Might be coincidental but it was in the same time that the sleepers started moving to the head end.

 

[rail rider]

Sleepers were put on the front when a past Amtrak president's wife rode the sleeper on the end and complained to her husband about the sway of the car on the end, so they put them up front. I've hated it ever since because of the train horns at night. Although if you took train 27/28 that sleeper was usually on the rear Spokane to Chicago. Also this would end hearing the conductors radio on late nights stops when they are heading up to the crew car after a stop.

 

[Larry H.]

I had heard a long time ago that the sleepers were moved to the front to avoid having to unhook and move them to acess a section that might be transfering, such on the city of new orleans when they used to take a sleeper and coach off at carbondale in the middle of the night, less manuvers and lest supposed cost? If so I doubt they do that much anylonger except as just mentioned in spokane on the empire builder.

 

[Trogdor]

I've been told by a friend that works as a conductor out of LAX that they might be redoing the consist of the Starlight to have the transition sleeper next to the coaches. Apparently the idea is to have the TA work six rooms in the transition sleeper, *plus* two coaches.

I'm not sure what the timeline on that would be, but he said that the TA jobs were posted for that arrangement.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

I've experienced two de-railings on Amtrak: both of them while in sleepers at the rear of the train when the sleeper was the only car effected. The last car seems to like to fall off the tracks under certain circumstances. Also, I've spent lots of time in sleepers at the front of the train, right behind the locomotive, and have yet to smell the exhaust, but I smell the breaks anywhere on the train all the time (when they are applied).

 

[papike]

I've experienced two de-railings on Amtrak: both of them while in sleepers at the rear of the train when the sleeper was the only car effected. The last car seems to like to fall off the tracks under certain circumstances. Also, I've spent lots of time in sleepers at the front of the train, right behind the locomotive, and have yet to smell the exhaust, but I smell the breaks anywhere on the train all the time (when they are applied).

I just got off the Silver Star from Orlando yesterday having the handicapped room in the sleeper located right behind the baggage car, while coming into 30th Street station about 50 yds from the platform the baggage car derailed just as we were standing ready to get off. Pax in coach didnt even feel anything and were wondering why the train stopped, I wonder now if sleepers in the rear are better or not, as for the train whistle I didnt hear it and no smell from the engine at all either

 

[battalion51]

It's possible for any portion of the train derail, there's no significant advantage having a car on the head or the rear (for passenger trains), except for loading and working purposes.

 

[WICT106]

I just returned from a trip aboard the Empire Builder yesterday. Taking photos out of the rear of the Portland Sleeper was a unique experience. There is something to be said about having a sleeper that is at the end of the train, away from the engines.

 

[steve relei]

This conversation gives me a different perspective. I had always been nervous in the last car of a train - be it a local commuter train or Amtrak.
The main reason I started traveling by train was around 1978 there was a train accident which was the worst ever at that time. There were survivors. Many of them. That sold me on train travel.

On my first Amtrak trip, the train hit a car. The train passengers were not at all affected, other than a delay while the wreckage was being cleared.

The reason the Starlight terminted/originated in Eugene is that the northbound train arrives in Eugene supposedly about 12:44--but it's always late. The southbound arrives in Eugene at about 5PM. They can service the train and get it going southbound without delaying the train too much, if they have to wait for the northbound (#14) to have a train set for the southbound run, the southbound set being held up in Seattle. I'd prefer that to bringing the train all the way to Portland (from the south)--which often doesn't get in until 5 or 6 PM, and have the southbound leave extremely late--it's supposed to leave Portland at 2:25 PM not 7, 8, or 9 PM.

I prefer the coaches at the rear. On my last trips on the Starlight, I sat in the last row of the last car of the train and was able to watch the rest of the train, especially at night when I could use the train and its lights to see (somewhat) where we were going. However if the coaches are now going to be toward the front of the train, I'll just have to get used to it.