St. Paul Union Depot

[jphjaxfl]

The GN ran the Winnipeg LTD overnight from St Paul to Winnipeg via Alexandria and Crookston. The NP ran a day train from St Paul to Winnipeg via St. Cloud, Manitoba Jct, Grand Forks and Grafton. The Soo Line ran the Winnipeger from St. Paul to Winnipeg via the Milwaukee Depot in Minneapolis, Detroit Lakes and Thief River Falls. The NP train ended in 1967, the Winnipeger in 1968. A truncated version of the Winnipeg LTD lasted until April 30, 1971. It ran in the Western Star from St Paul to Grand Forks, then via Crookston to Winnipeg. It included a dinercoach from Grand Forks to Winnipeg.

 

[NW cannonball]

The GN ran the Winnipeg LTD overnight from St Paul to Winnipeg via Alexandria and Crookston. The NP ran a day train from St Paul to Winnipeg via St. Cloud, Manitoba Jct, Grand Forks and Grafton. The Soo Line ran the Winnipeger from St. Paul to Winnipeg via the Milwaukee Depot in Minneapolis, Detroit Lakes and Thief River Falls. The NP train ended in 1967, the Winnipeger in 1968. A truncated version of the Winnipeg LTD lasted until April 30, 1971. It ran in the Western Star from St Paul to Grand Forks, then via Crookston to Winnipeg. It included a dinercoach from Grand Forks to Winnipeg.

Thanks -- the Red River ran only to Grand Forks, then pax would have to catch the later Winnipeg Limited to get from Grand Forks to Winnipeg - really late night early morning hours.

Trying - but can't see how on the current EB schedule there could be a shuttle from Grand Forks to Winnipeg using only one trainset.

It was only a dream anyhow -

 

[jphjaxfl]

The GN ran the Winnipeg LTD overnight from St Paul to Winnipeg via Alexandria and Crookston. The NP ran a day train from St Paul to Winnipeg via St. Cloud, Manitoba Jct, Grand Forks and Grafton. The Soo Line ran the Winnipeger from St. Paul to Winnipeg via the Milwaukee Depot in Minneapolis, Detroit Lakes and Thief River Falls. The NP train ended in 1967, the Winnipeger in 1968. A truncated version of the Winnipeg LTD lasted until April 30, 1971. It ran in the Western Star from St Paul to Grand Forks, then via Crookston to Winnipeg. It included a dinercoach from Grand Forks to Winnipeg.

Thanks -- the Red River ran only to Grand Forks, then pax would have to catch the later Winnipeg Limited to get from Grand Forks to Winnipeg - really late night early morning hours.

Trying - but can't see how on the current EB schedule there could be a shuttle from Grand Forks to Winnipeg using only one trainset.

It was only a dream anyhow -

The Red River was almost like a commuter or shoppers train that left Grand Forks around 7:30AM and arrived back about midnight. In the days before regional malls, most people in North Dakota and Western Minnesota went to the Twin Cities to shop every few months. For many years the Winnipeg LTD was a totally seperate train that left the main line and ran through Barnesville and Crookston to Winnepeg. It had sleeping cars and a very nice sleeper lounge that served light meals. In the early 1960s, the Red River was cut back to Fargo and the Winnipeg LTD was rerouted through Fargo and Grand Forks. It may have been combined with the Dakotan which was mainly a mail train.

 

[jebr]

Finally, Will the routing continue to be the same through the old Midway station or will there be a more efficient way now to get out of town and onto full speed trackage?

While the routing will be the same, *times from St. Paul to Chicago will be significantly shorter*, because nearly all of that low-speed trackage will now be west of the station. Of course times from St. Paul to St. Cloud will be longer by the same amount, so there you go.

My understanding is that Amtrak would like to use a reversing move at St. Paul so they can enter and exit from the east and use CP directly to and from BNSF to get off of the Minnesota Commercial trackage. This would be similar to the move by the Zephyr at Denver. The FRA is balking at this plan, so they might be stuck with today's route. There is also some thought about adding a stop at one of the Northstar stations near Minneapolis to provide better access for the larger population on the west side of the Twin Cities.

".......There is also some thought about adding a stop at one of the Northstar stations near Minneapolis to provide better access for the larger population on the west side of the Twin Cities. ...." About the only thing in this whole thread that makes sense, so far as I have read.

Fridley would make the most sense for this. Its Northstar station is one of the least-utilized (if not the least-utilized) on the line, as there's already express bus service in that area that people use. There always seems to be a TON of open parking there.

 

[Nathanael]

Any other possible corridor routes? Even under unlikely scenarios?

If the legislature lifts the ban on studying it put in by crazy NIMBY suburbanites, the "Dan Patch route" to Northfield, MN -- a two-college town -- would almost certainly be fast-tracked. That would probably go to St. Paul, as there are several ways to do that, and basically no ways to get it to Minneapolis any more.

 

[NW cannonball]

The GN ran the Winnipeg LTD overnight from St Paul to Winnipeg via Alexandria and Crookston. The NP ran a day train from St Paul to Winnipeg via St. Cloud, Manitoba Jct, Grand Forks and Grafton. The Soo Line ran the Winnipeger from St. Paul to Winnipeg via the Milwaukee Depot in Minneapolis, Detroit Lakes and Thief River Falls. The NP train ended in 1967, the Winnipeger in 1968. A truncated version of the Winnipeg LTD lasted until April 30, 1971. It ran in the Western Star from St Paul to Grand Forks, then via Crookston to Winnipeg. It included a dinercoach from Grand Forks to Winnipeg.

Thanks -- the Red River ran only to Grand Forks, then pax would have to catch the later Winnipeg Limited to get from Grand Forks to Winnipeg - really late night early morning hours.

Trying - but can't see how on the current EB schedule there could be a shuttle from Grand Forks to Winnipeg using only one trainset.

It was only a dream anyhow -

The Red River was almost like a commuter or shoppers train that left Grand Forks around 7:30AM and arrived back about midnight. In the days before regional malls, most people in North Dakota and Western Minnesota went to the Twin Cities to shop every few months. For many years the Winnipeg LTD was a totally seperate train that left the main line and ran through Barnesville and Crookston to Winnepeg. It had sleeping cars and a very nice sleeper lounge that served light meals. In the early 1960s, the Red River was cut back to Fargo and the Winnipeg LTD was rerouted through Fargo and Grand Forks. It may have been combined with the Dakotan which was mainly a mail train.

Yup, that's how I remember it. Not only shoppers - big business people (bankers, big farmers, and such) from NDak and western Minnesota would take the Red River to the Twin Cities for important business meetings etc.

But now - what plausible market exists on the Winnipeg - Grand Forks - Fargo - MSP run -- maybe shopping? Those Canadian "Loonies" are worth a lot more dollars than what they used to be. There's less sales tax in Minn than in MB

Living in the MSP area I recently (a few decades recently) feel cut off from Canada - it's a long drive or an expensive flight from MSP to Winnipeg or Thunder Bay.

 

[NW cannonball]

Any other possible corridor routes? Even under unlikely scenarios?

If the legislature lifts the ban on studying it put in by crazy NIMBY suburbanites, the "Dan Patch route" to Northfield, MN -- a two-college town -- would almost certainly be fast-tracked. That would probably go to St. Paul, as there are several ways to do that, and basically no ways to get it to Minneapolis any more.

And this route could extend to Rochester MN I think. Lots of passengers do the shuttle from MSP to the big Mayo Clinic there.

 

[tubaia]

I just hope they find some services for the new depot (i.e., FOOD) that are willing to stay open for the late night westbound EB departure. At least the current Midway station has vending machines, which the new station may not have in order to keep their tenants happy. Whether it be a late-night diner, fast food, or even a newsstand with snacks, the on-time departure can be a long stretch after supper, and even worse if/when the train is delayed.

 

[anir dendroica]

Any other possible corridor routes? Even under unlikely scenarios?

If the legislature lifts the ban on studying it put in by crazy NIMBY suburbanites, the "Dan Patch route" to Northfield, MN -- a two-college town -- would almost certainly be fast-tracked. That would probably go to St. Paul, as there are several ways to do that, and basically no ways to get it to Minneapolis any more.

And this route could extend to Rochester MN I think. Lots of passengers do the shuttle from MSP to the big Mayo Clinic there.

That would be a challenge. From Northfield the track goes south to Faribault, Albert Lea, and ultimately Ames, IA. To get to Rochester you need to transfer from the UP to the DM&E at Owatonna. None of this is fast track. Maybe four hours to Rochester if lucky, vs. around an hour on the road. Not likely.

 

[VentureForth]

Any other possible corridor routes? Even under unlikely scenarios?

If the legislature lifts the ban on studying it put in by crazy NIMBY suburbanites, the "Dan Patch route" to Northfield, MN -- a two-college town -- would almost certainly be fast-tracked. That would probably go to St. Paul, as there are several ways to do that, and basically no ways to get it to Minneapolis any more.

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like this is sort of a bill that could be easily reversed by a different set of representatives. But, yes, NIMBYs are all for progress - so long as it doesn't impose on them. The Dan Patch looks like a good commuter route with plenty of potential ridership.

 

[Ozark Southern]

As one of the few big projects in the Midwest right now, the SPUD renovation is a project that very much interests me. My wife and I rode the light rail line back in 2007 from downtown all the way out to the mall and were very impressed. I'm glad to see the Twin Cities really pushing for better transit. Outside of Chicago, transit in the Midwest frankly just sucks.

This project has three things I really admire: it renovates an old building rather than building new, it moves an amenity from a suburban location to downtown, and it establishes new transit connections where they have previously not existed. I'm hoping that the San Francisco of the Midwest can become a model for some other Midwest cities (I'm looking at you, Kansas City) to change how they view transit.

 

[Bob Dylan]

San Francisco of the Midwest? And don't forget St. Louis, they have a pretty nice Public Transportation Network, we really enjoyed riding during our Gathering there two Years ago!

And while it's not really Midwest, The Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex is in the process of Expanding a really Impressive System also, very surprising in this Monument to Urban Sprawl and the Automobile!! (well, Arlington, thanks to Jerry,"Show Me the Money!" Jones is an exception! :angry2: )

 

[Guest]

As one of the few big projects in the Midwest right now, the SPUD renovation is a project that very much interests me. My wife and I rode the light rail line back in 2007 from downtown all the way out to the mall and were very impressed. I'm glad to see the Twin Cities really pushing for better transit. Outside of Chicago, transit in the Midwest frankly just sucks.

This project has three things I really admire: it renovates an old building rather than building new, it moves an amenity from a suburban location to downtown, and it establishes new transit connections where they have previously not existed. I'm hoping that the San Francisco of the Midwest can become a model for some other Midwest cities (I'm looking at you, Kansas City) to change how they view transit.

I am trying to be optimistic that the move will increase ridership even though it's further from the greater population areas of the region and will pose challenges (as well as costs) to folks who need to drive and park.

The current Midway Depot is not in a suburban location. It is in an industrial and commercial area of St. Paul, located "midway" between downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul. The new lightrail extension goes almost as close there as the lightrail will go to SPUD. It's really too bad they couldn't have the lightrail actually go INTO the renovated SPUD.

 

[NW cannonball]

As one of the few big projects in the Midwest right now, the SPUD renovation is a project that very much interests me. My wife and I rode the light rail line back in 2007 from downtown all the way out to the mall and were very impressed. I'm glad to see the Twin Cities really pushing for better transit. Outside of Chicago, transit in the Midwest frankly just sucks.

This project has three things I really admire: it renovates an old building rather than building new, it moves an amenity from a suburban location to downtown, and it establishes new transit connections where they have previously not existed. I'm hoping that the San Francisco of the Midwest can become a model for some other Midwest cities (I'm looking at you, Kansas City) to change how they view transit.

I am trying to be optimistic that the move will increase ridership even though it's further from the greater population areas of the region and will pose challenges (as well as costs) to folks who need to drive and park.

The current Midway Depot is not in a suburban location. It is in an industrial and commercial area of St. Paul, located "midway" between downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul. The new lightrail extension goes almost as close there as the lightrail will go to SPUD. It's really too bad they couldn't have the lightrail actually go INTO the renovated SPUD.

Thanks, Ozark.

I think that the success of the light rail projects I've ridden is based on 4 things -- access to local attractions - access to commuters - access to airport - access to corridor or long distance rail.

Chicago would be a prime example - always a railroad town. Now the EL feeds ORD and MDW and CHI and most commuter rail where you can get to various places in Wisconsin and even Indiana after 10 PM. And can get to any museum or hotel from airport or train station easily.

NY likewise - more or less - some of the airport connections are slow sometimes.

The light rail in Seattle serves the airport, King Street Amtrak station, both local big league stadiums and all local transit.

What little I understand of Miami - similar, and likely to get better with current projects.

Washington DC - working on the "Silver line" maybe will get finished -- but even now Metro will get you from DCA to any govt agency headquarters - all the museums - and Washington Union Station - but not to the big far away Dulles airport.

Here in MSP - the first light rail line hits the "Mall of America" , main airport, downtown with all the local big sports and music venues.

The new downtown Saint Paul Depot renovation has -- a fast bus to MSP airport - almost no local nightlife or attractions - except for the moderate convention trade - and only the NHL saints for a sports attraction. It's fighting uphill. A bit like downtown northshore Jacksonville Florida, except there's a few thousand people who live downtown Saint Paul and a few (some really good - restaurants - try Tanpopo or Ruam Mit or even Cosseta's)

I've got no clue if the new place will make it or not -- hope so - especially with the new light rail line - but not betting on it.

The place (forget the name - on Jacksonville riverfront ) seems to be doing OK despite similar problems -- maybe it will work - if it does - I love walking the riverfront on the Mississippi in Saint Paul -- liked walking the riverfront in Jacksonville last month - like walking riverfront most anywhere.

For me, right now, the one-mile walk to the old Midway Amtrak station is so convenient that the new thing is just a dream.

 

[anir dendroica]

I like the idea of boarding/detraining at a big old downtown depot instead of the glorified shack that is Midway Station. That said, moving the stop eastward to SPUD makes the large, highly populated gap between St. Cloud and MSP stations even larger. I'd be in favor of adding a stop somewhere like Fridley, preferably with a big parking lot. It's pretty common for LD trains to have multiple stops in large metropolitan areas - e.g. Chicago-Glenview, Portland-Vancouver(WA), and Martinez-Richmond-Emeryville-Oakland.

Mark

 

[zephyr17]

I like the idea of boarding/detraining at a big old downtown depot instead of the glorified shack that is Midway Station. That said, moving the stop eastward to SPUD makes the large, highly populated gap between St. Cloud and MSP stations even larger. I'd be in favor of adding a stop somewhere like Fridley, preferably with a big parking lot. It's pretty common for LD trains to have multiple stops in large metropolitan areas - e.g. Chicago-Glenview, Portland-Vancouver(WA), and Martinez-Richmond-Emeryville-Oakland.

Mark

Tacoma-Tukwila-Seattle-Edmonds-Everett

 

[Nathanael]

The new downtown Saint Paul Depot renovation has -- a fast bus to MSP airport - almost no local nightlife or attractions - except for the moderate convention trade

Well, there's the farmers' market.

- and only the NHL saints for a sports attraction. It's fighting uphill. A bit like downtown northshore Jacksonville Florida, except there's a few thousand people who live downtown Saint Paul and a few (some really good - restaurants - try Tanpopo or Ruam Mit or even Cosseta's)

The few thousand people help.

I've got no clue if the new place will make it or not -- hope so - especially with the new light rail line - but not betting on it.

With the light rail line, which is going to be heavily used, I think it will do just fine. I'm not sure how it will do in the interval before the light rail line opens.

The place (forget the name - on Jacksonville riverfront ) seems to be doing OK despite similar problems -- maybe it will work - if it does - I love walking the riverfront on the Mississippi in Saint Paul -- liked walking the riverfront in Jacksonville last month - like walking riverfront most anywhere.

They are trying to make the walk from the station to the riverfront nicer. It's a bit scary as it is.

 

[Ozark Southern]

San Francisco of the Midwest? And don't forget St. Louis, they have a pretty nice Public Transportation Network, we really enjoyed riding during our Gathering there two Years ago!

And while it's not really Midwest, The Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex is in the process of Expanding a really Impressive System also, very surprising in this Monument to Urban Sprawl and the Automobile!! (well, Arlington, thanks to Jerry,"Show Me the Money!" Jones is an exception! :angry2: )

Yeah, in many ways, the Twin Cities are becoming what the Bay Area was in the 90s: a gay-friendly center of business and education, whose citizens are conscious of social and environmental issues, and are ditching the cars in favour of bicycles and public transit.

I'm glad you were impressed by St. Louis. It really is the best city in Missouri, not just in transportation but also in its historical sites, its museums, its public parks, and its cultural events. It has the best transit system of any Missouri city, and the people actually use it. Sometimes during rush hour it's actually pretty difficult to find standing room on Metrolink, let alone a seat. It doesn't compare to Chicago or Washington in coverage and frequencies, but it does well for the people who use it. As a visitor, I've never felt the need to have a car in St. Louis, and that means a lot for how well the system works.

The Twin Cities was much the same way. We drove to Minneapolis, but once we were there, the car stayed in the hotel parking lot the whole time, and we used public transit or walked everywhere. When transit works, people use it. It's sad when one man can hold up progress for 100,000 people, but I can certainly understand why Arlington would be afraid to lose the rather substantial income Cowboys Stadium provides.

 

[NW cannonball]

The new downtown Saint Paul Depot renovation has -- a fast bus to MSP airport - almost no local nightlife or attractions - except for the moderate convention trade

Well, there's the farmers' market.

- and only the NHL saints for a sports attraction. It's fighting uphill. A bit like downtown northshore Jacksonville Florida, except there's a few thousand people who live downtown Saint Paul and a few (some really good - restaurants - try Tanpopo or Ruam Mit or even Cosseta's)

The few thousand people help.

I've got no clue if the new place will make it or not -- hope so - especially with the new light rail line - but not betting on it.

With the light rail line, which is going to be heavily used, I think it will do just fine. I'm not sure how it will do in the interval before the light rail line opens.

The place (forget the name - on Jacksonville riverfront ) seems to be doing OK despite similar problems -- maybe it will work - if it does - I love walking the riverfront on the Mississippi in Saint Paul -- liked walking the riverfront in Jacksonville last month - like walking riverfront most anywhere.

They are trying to make the walk from the station to the riverfront nicer. It's a bit scary as it is.

Yeah, Jacksonville "downtown - north of the river" was a bit scary between the "transit center" and my hotel on the riverfront -- Saint Paul - no such problem. Wishing Jacksonville could run their skytrain thing on weekends. OTOH catching the local transit bus from near hotel to the Mayport base wasn't scary at all at 05:20 on a Sunday morning.

Saint Paul - the rehabbed station area - might be boring but not scary at all -

Another "attraction" near Saint Paul is the Science Museum -- can watch trains from their balcony and they have a lot of interactive exhibits.

Also Saint Paul has many events over on Harriet Island - less than a mile walk from SPUD and nearby hotels.

Maybe as a local resident I undervalue the amenities of the riverfront here. For sure I don't fear getting mugged or even hassled anywhere in downtown Saint Paul. And I love walking along the river.

 

[VentureForth]

San Francisco of the Midwest? And don't forget St. Louis, they have a pretty nice Public Transportation Network, we really enjoyed riding during our Gathering there two Years ago!

And while it's not really Midwest, The Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex is in the process of Expanding a really Impressive System also, very surprising in this Monument to Urban Sprawl and the Automobile!! (well, Arlington, thanks to Jerry,"Show Me the Money!" Jones is an exception! :angry2: )

Yeah, in many ways, the Twin Cities are becoming what the Bay Area was in the 90s: a gay-friendly center of business and education, whose citizens are conscious of social and environmental issues, and are ditching the cars in favour of bicycles and public transit.

I'm glad you were impressed by St. Louis. It really is the best city in Missouri, not just in transportation but also in its historical sites, its museums, its public parks, and its cultural events. It has the best transit system of any Missouri city, and the people actually use it. Sometimes during rush hour it's actually pretty difficult to find standing room on Metrolink, let alone a seat. It doesn't compare to Chicago or Washington in coverage and frequencies, but it does well for the people who use it. As a visitor, I've never felt the need to have a car in St. Louis, and that means a lot for how well the system works.

The Twin Cities was much the same way. We drove to Minneapolis, but once we were there, the car stayed in the hotel parking lot the whole time, and we used public transit or walked everywhere. When transit works, people use it. It's sad when one man can hold up progress for 100,000 people, but I can certainly understand why Arlington would be afraid to lose the rather substantial income Cowboys Stadium provides.

Arlington failed public transportation LONG before Jerry Jones ever had a say so in the matter.

 

[NW cannonball]

San Francisco of the Midwest? And don't forget St. Louis, they have a pretty nice Public Transportation Network, we really enjoyed riding during our Gathering there two Years ago!

And while it's not really Midwest, The Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex is in the process of Expanding a really Impressive System also, very surprising in this Monument to Urban Sprawl and the Automobile!! (well, Arlington, thanks to Jerry,"Show Me the Money!" Jones is an exception! :angry2: )

Yeah, in many ways, the Twin Cities are becoming what the Bay Area was in the 90s: a gay-friendly center of business and education, whose citizens are conscious of social and environmental issues, and are ditching the cars in favour of bicycles and public transit.

I'm glad you were impressed by St. Louis. It really is the best city in Missouri, not just in transportation but also in its historical sites, its museums, its public parks, and its cultural events. It has the best transit system of any Missouri city, and the people actually use it. Sometimes during rush hour it's actually pretty difficult to find standing room on Metrolink, let alone a seat. It doesn't compare to Chicago or Washington in coverage and frequencies, but it does well for the people who use it. As a visitor, I've never felt the need to have a car in St. Louis, and that means a lot for how well the system works.

The Twin Cities was much the same way. We drove to Minneapolis, but once we were there, the car stayed in the hotel parking lot the whole time, and we used public transit or walked everywhere. When transit works, people use it. It's sad when one man can hold up progress for 100,000 people, but I can certainly understand why Arlington would be afraid to lose the rather substantial income Cowboys Stadium provides.

Glad to know that Twin Cities transit options worked for you. Hoping to visit Saint Louis sometime soon.

Saint Paul is kid-friendly and gay-friendly , mostly. Transit - friendly also.

No scary neighborhoods near the SPUD. Walk the riverfront any time day or night. There's all-night food at Mickey's

 

[Notelvis]

I had an omelotte the size of my head at Mickey's a couple of summers ago. Can't wait to take the train right back to downtown St. Paul and do it again!

 

[jebr]

San Francisco of the Midwest? And don't forget St. Louis, they have a pretty nice Public Transportation Network, we really enjoyed riding during our Gathering there two Years ago!

And while it's not really Midwest, The Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex is in the process of Expanding a really Impressive System also, very surprising in this Monument to Urban Sprawl and the Automobile!! (well, Arlington, thanks to Jerry,"Show Me the Money!" Jones is an exception! :angry2: )

Yeah, in many ways, the Twin Cities are becoming what the Bay Area was in the 90s: a gay-friendly center of business and education, whose citizens are conscious of social and environmental issues, and are ditching the cars in favour of bicycles and public transit.

I'm glad you were impressed by St. Louis. It really is the best city in Missouri, not just in transportation but also in its historical sites, its museums, its public parks, and its cultural events. It has the best transit system of any Missouri city, and the people actually use it. Sometimes during rush hour it's actually pretty difficult to find standing room on Metrolink, let alone a seat. It doesn't compare to Chicago or Washington in coverage and frequencies, but it does well for the people who use it. As a visitor, I've never felt the need to have a car in St. Louis, and that means a lot for how well the system works.

The Twin Cities was much the same way. We drove to Minneapolis, but once we were there, the car stayed in the hotel parking lot the whole time, and we used public transit or walked everywhere. When transit works, people use it. It's sad when one man can hold up progress for 100,000 people, but I can certainly understand why Arlington would be afraid to lose the rather substantial income Cowboys Stadium provides.

Glad to know that Twin Cities transit options worked for you. Hoping to visit Saint Louis sometime soon.

Saint Paul is kid-friendly and gay-friendly , mostly. Transit - friendly also.

No scary neighborhoods near the SPUD. Walk the riverfront any time day or night. There's all-night food at Mickey's

Just expect it to take 45 minutes to an hour, as there's always a line to be seated (at least in my experience.)

 

[Shawn Ryu]

All the renovations just for 2 trains a day?

God knows how badly MSP to CHI train is needed.

 

[NW cannonball]

All the renovations just for 2 trains a day?

God knows how badly MSP to CHI train is needed.

Another train MSP-CHI would be welcome here. The proposed reinstatement of passenger service to Duluth would also be welcome. The extension of the Northstar commuter train to Saint Cloud would be good - now there's a train to bus thing on that line. The proposed Red Rock commuter line would be good if economically feasible.

But right now the SPUD renovation project will serve the EB - the only Amtrak train here. And many other transit and other services.

Will serve the light-rail extension in progress serving most shopping and sports venues here in MSP including "Mall of America" (Mal d'Amer is my private word for the place - French for sea-sick)

And will serve the Saint Paul Riverfront area with local attractions and have quick easy transit to the main airport.

The project is not only to serve the EB - the old Midway Amtrak depot has been doing that for decades.

Washington Union Station it won't be -- useful it might be -- it will be a few years before anyone knows how it works out.