I took a day trip to Niagara Falls Canada driving in a car. Going into Canada was no big deal. Coming back, we were delayed over an our while the US people searched my car for drugs. When I got home I realized they had even taken the back seat apart. It was not put back together completely.
Stephen Gardner new Amtrak president
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They used to do the Procedure on the Train( I always rode in Biz Class), now you have to Detrain and enter the Station, so its slower.
Always friendly and professional to me, but I cant say that about our guys on the US side while reurning on the Maple Leaf.(Note: it has been a Year since I was there!)
Qapla
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Are we still discussing Stephen Gardner?
There’s been a lot of good discussion - but we stopped whining directly about him by the bottom of Page 1 or 2.
But if you are president of Amtrak - there are a lot of potential issues you should be dealing with properly and we’re determined to discuss them all in this thread.
Besides - if he is going to read our forum for advice - don’t you think he’d quickly navigate to the thread with his name in the title ?
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jis
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We appear to have left that building a long time back. We are facing some difficulty merely staying in the Amtrak campus at present
Qapla
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Well, I guess if SG is president of Amtrak - he has to take all these sidings along with the mainline .... let's keep covering all the issues he has to deal with (wonder if that might include putting tracks on or near "the wall")
crescent-zephyr
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If you’ve ever ridden the sunset limited you know that the tracks can’t get much closer!
For most of the life of Amtrak we Westerners have had one request in planning service eastbound from Chicago and that is a 2200 to 2345 departure to NYP via PHL (with connections to DC). That would pick up regional connections and would eliminate a lot of overnight surprise stays in Chicago from long-distance trains. Even in the later days of pre-Amtrak companies there were eastbound trains in that slot.
It was blatantly obvious that U.S. Customs and Immigration authorities tried to kill the Amtrak Pacific International. Then it was Canada Customs and Immigration authorities openly trying keep the Cascades from going to twice daily. Imagine how many guys had to stay awake in Maine when VIA Rail took over the Atlantic and the ridership increased.
I've followed this for over 50 years and I think the problem is that a train creates a big surge in their workload and then long lulls. Sometimes even intercity buses create small surges when a second section is added. Autos are much better for smoothing out their work load and best of all they come with license plates that can be run in the computer.
And the failed LAX airport bomber was caught at the Port Angeles ferry. I don't know whether there really was a problem with Canada being easier for terrorists to enter or if having the border generates incidents that might or might not happen elsewhere.
I do know that Canada's computer data handling for Immigration is terrible, as the Vancouver, BC immigration attorneys found when I was trying to get the Social Insurance that Service Canada said they owed me. They couldn't find my Landed Immigrant information. It was a generic computer issue so U.S. counter-terrorism people may have run into much bigger problems in making inquiries of Canada.
The border hassles in the past 50 years have not only killed half a dozen rail passenger routes that one may think were doomed anyway, but also have killed half a dozen cross-border bus routes.
west point
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Buffalo - Erie - Cleveland - Toledo - Detroit can be made a fast as going thru Canada with the various customs delays. What happens when Canada will not let a passenger even pass thru Canada ? Or worse still just part of a family ? That could be real bad. Granted Tol- DET and the mess around Cleveland would need some track work to enable Amtrak to reliably pass those impediments but that IMHO would be a better use of money. As well LSL and Capitol could interchange passenger at TOL and when track work is complete in Michigan then everything becomes much more passenger friendly.
About covid-19. the US has 22 times the number of deaths of Canada or adjusted for population 2-1/2 times. Case rate is US 36 times Canada or 4 times adjusted for population. If any of us think Canada is going to open the border for Biden forget it until both the case rate and death rate is lower in the US than in Canada.. Based on the shortages of inoculations in the USA I cannot see that happening before the end of 2021. Hope that is incorrect for all the persons in the USA but -----------???
e
About covid-19. the US has 22 times the number of deaths of Canada or adjusted for population 2-1/2 times. Case rate is US 36 times Canada or 4 times adjusted for population. If any of us think Canada is going to open the border for Biden forget it until both the case rate and death rate is lower in the US than in Canada.. Based on the shortages of inoculations in the USA I cannot see that happening before the end of 2021. Hope that is incorrect for all the persons in the USA but -----------???
e
Of course, now that all border crossers need a passport, that, too, can be run in the computer. And at least people riding across the border on a train or bus only have a suitcase or two to be inspected, not a whole car that needs to be taken apart.
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It would be nice if Amtrak could forward your passport information to the border agency so they could do a quasi pre-screen.
Surprised if they don’t, already.
Even Greyhound did that in NYC, for Montreal bound passenger’s
They faxed a manifest to the border for every trip.
jis
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They do that already. As a matter of fact they are required by statute to do that so that a pre-check can be made (just like for international airline passengers) before the train arrives at the border. That is why they collect that information when you buy the ticket to go cross the border. Amtrak gets fined if they fail to do that and are then responsible for returning the unchecked person to wherever they came from.
As long crossing the border is back with us, kindly allow a variation on the previously discussed CHI to BUF route through DET: how about CHI to Toronto (TWO) or Montreal (MTR) instead? Getting to TWO or MTR from the East is easy as you simply board anywhere along the route of the Maple Leaf or Adirondack. But it's not so easy from the West as you'd no doubt end up either starting from or going through CHI. There are three fairly straightforward pre-Covid routes from CHI to TWO (and then to MTR):
• The longest is 21hr 11min by taking the LSL to BUF and then the Maple Leaf to TWO after a 6hr 15min gap between trains in BUF (border crossing comes after BUF)
• Next fastest is 17hr 53min by taking the Blue Water to PTH and then VIA Rail from Sarnia, ON to TWO after a 6hr 39min gap between trains to cross the border between PTH and Sarnia.
• The fastest is 13hr 31min by taking the Wolverine to DET and then VIA Rail from Windsor, ON to TWO after a 3hr 6min gap between trains to cross the border between DET and Windsor.
Living way North of CHI, not wanting to fly anywhere and dreaming of another cruise from Montreal (MTR) I've studied how-to-get-there methods several times and found that (without flying) there's no way to get to MTR in time to board a cruise ship the same day you arrive. In addition, getting to MTR from
CHI using the Adirondack from SDY requires an overnight at SDY too. That leaves any of the three routes detailed above.
• While all three require a border crossing, I suspect any delays would be the shortest using either of the last two with two card-carrying elderly US citizens in a taxi. In other words more chances for a longer delay with more pax to screen on the Maple Leaf at Niagara Falls.
• The middle route through PTH is out of contention as the train gets there just before midnight and the somewhat remote station looks a little on the - er - bleak side.
• This leaves the last route through DET as my choice for getting to TWO or MTR from CHI. But like others, I think there's little chance of a direct rail connection between the Detroit Amtrak station and the VIA Rail Windsor station. While trackage looks intact in the online imagery, the route is a bit on the zooey side as seen below:
Biggest snag is the Wolverine continues on to Pontiac. Any tips on getting between the two stations shown above?
Now,. back to the Gardner issue.
• The longest is 21hr 11min by taking the LSL to BUF and then the Maple Leaf to TWO after a 6hr 15min gap between trains in BUF (border crossing comes after BUF)
• Next fastest is 17hr 53min by taking the Blue Water to PTH and then VIA Rail from Sarnia, ON to TWO after a 6hr 39min gap between trains to cross the border between PTH and Sarnia.
• The fastest is 13hr 31min by taking the Wolverine to DET and then VIA Rail from Windsor, ON to TWO after a 3hr 6min gap between trains to cross the border between DET and Windsor.
Living way North of CHI, not wanting to fly anywhere and dreaming of another cruise from Montreal (MTR) I've studied how-to-get-there methods several times and found that (without flying) there's no way to get to MTR in time to board a cruise ship the same day you arrive. In addition, getting to MTR from
CHI using the Adirondack from SDY requires an overnight at SDY too. That leaves any of the three routes detailed above.
• While all three require a border crossing, I suspect any delays would be the shortest using either of the last two with two card-carrying elderly US citizens in a taxi. In other words more chances for a longer delay with more pax to screen on the Maple Leaf at Niagara Falls.
• The middle route through PTH is out of contention as the train gets there just before midnight and the somewhat remote station looks a little on the - er - bleak side.
• This leaves the last route through DET as my choice for getting to TWO or MTR from CHI. But like others, I think there's little chance of a direct rail connection between the Detroit Amtrak station and the VIA Rail Windsor station. While trackage looks intact in the online imagery, the route is a bit on the zooey side as seen below:
Biggest snag is the Wolverine continues on to Pontiac. Any tips on getting between the two stations shown above?
Now,. back to the Gardner issue.
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Have you looked at the bus?
https://www.citywindsor.ca/resident...hedules/Documents/Tunnel Service Pamphlet.pdf
https://www.citywindsor.ca/resident...hedules/Documents/Tunnel Service Pamphlet.pdf
The Tunnel Bus is the proverbial piece-of-cake with one big proviso. It is intended for commuters and day visitors to either side. I have taken it many times - often from my hotel in Windsor to the Detroit convention center and back. It is not a good way to travel with luggage. First, it's a standard city bus with no luggage racks and is almost always crowded - especially in convention times, sporting events or the car show. Then, you are required to disembark in both directions and go into (or line-up outside) the checkpoint. There are a limited number of officers in both directions given the number of people to be processed and the frequency of the buses (pre-Covid). People with luggage are always detained. The officers get to them eventually, but have to return to the main desk when the next bus arrives. It can take awhile.
Amtrak did send the Manifest with Passenger info to Canadian Officials.
You lined up @ a Special Desk in Penn Station and got Special Luggsge tags, your Luggage had to stay with you, no checked bags.
Not sure how it worked for Stations North and East/West of NYP????
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". . the bus?" Yes, I did. In addition to what JimL mentioned, going between those two train stations by bus actually involves taking three separate buses. The total length of the route for those three buses is 6.0 miles or 9.5 km. The Tunnel Bus's share is 3.3 miles or 5.2 km. Not worth the hassle. Would take a taxi for a bit more $.
Actually, would take a taxi for a lot more $.
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jis
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The Passport information is collected when you purchase the ticket. That rigmarole at NYP is similar to document examination at airline checkin to verify that the passenger does have a valid border crossing document. The conductor is supposed to check thos when lifting the tickets for boardings from other stations en route.
Once the border opens up (2022?) - traveling into Canada from the Detroit/Windsor border will be one of my first new rail adventures to try out.
I have relatives in both Battle Creek and Jackson, MI. One of those will likely be my starting point. To cross the border - I’ll almost certainly take a taxi or equivalent.
I’m just hoping the Ocean is still around when the border opens.
For those who think we’re off topic - if I remember correctly Chicago to Toronto through Detroit is in Amtrak’s early investigation phase. Yet another important topic for Stephen which requires our advice...
I have relatives in both Battle Creek and Jackson, MI. One of those will likely be my starting point. To cross the border - I’ll almost certainly take a taxi or equivalent.
I’m just hoping the Ocean is still around when the border opens.
For those who think we’re off topic - if I remember correctly Chicago to Toronto through Detroit is in Amtrak’s early investigation phase. Yet another important topic for Stephen which requires our advice...
One of the Ontario Provincial government's election ideas (2017) was investment in an improved rail link between Toronto and Detroit - the "red-headed stepchild" of the main corridor. They were courting votes from that section of the province of course, but saw the potential. We all know what's happened to many great ideas in the last year.
One of the Ontario Provincial government's election ideas (2017) was investment in an improved rail link between Toronto and Detroit - the "red-headed stepchild" of the main corridor. They were courting votes from that section of the province of course, but saw the potential. We all know what's happened to many great ideas in the last year.
Have hope - it could still happen. Just a couple of years ago - who would have thought that the Michigan Central Depot would be fully renovated by 2022 - rail service or not?
We might be able to springboard off that momentous event to get support for a new Chicago/Detroit/Toronto train - and maybe even a new station for Windsor...
jis
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If they expect the speculated about Detroit - Toronto service to have a stop in Windsor that does not add 45 minutes to the overall running time, they will have to address the issue of building a station somewhere on the CP side between the tunnel and the junction with what now is essentially factory siding that will need to be upgraded to a main line connecting CP to CN in Windsor. Needless to say it is Canada that will have to come up with funds to do all of that, which BTW, I think they should. But of course I have what is probably less than zero say in what Canda does with its money in its territory.
