SWC-Capitol Run-Through

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T

Tom

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Since both these routes share the same equipment, why not call them the same train? Shorten the layover at Chicago a little bit, and it would be a "seamless" LA-Washington train. How grand would that be!?!? It would be the train that would represent America, hitting the biggest pop. areas while crossing the continent. Of course it probably won't happen, just an idea though. Comments?
 
Actually, the run-through only works in one direction (westbound). Eastbound, the equipment overnights in Chicago.

It's also not guaranteed that the equipment will run through. If 29 is too late, they'll use something else for 3, and turn 29 to 30.
 
rmadisonwi said:
Actually, the run-through only works in one direction (westbound). Eastbound, the equipment overnights in Chicago.
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Aloha

If the equiptment overnights in Chicago can you book a sleeper on the overnight?
 
No. The Capitol Limited and Southwest Chief are separate trains. They happen to share equipment, but that is more for operational convenience than any other reason. The eastbound Chief arrives in the mid-afternoon (without checking a timetable, I'd guess somewhere between 2 and 4 PM). The Capitol Limited leaves at 5:30. The Chief's equipment goes to the yard, spends the night, gets worked on, cars get robbed to make up other trains with bad-order equipment, etc.

The next day, the set (or, rather, *a* set) gets put back together and heads out on the Capitol Limited. If you stayed in the car overnight, who knows where you'd wind up.
 
I'm just thinking that if the Sunset can do it, why not the Chief and Capitol? The Chief is usually pretty on time and the Capitol is usually within one or two hrs. I would think it should work. Have the train do what the sunset does in NO.
 
Just a few years ago, that's exactly what was happening. The Chief and the Capitol Ltd. were run throughs. In fact, Amtrak published in the timetable that through passengers could leave their luggage on board and "go out on the town". Mr. Gunn was not particularly fond of the arrangement, nor did he like the City/Builder run through for three reasons: (1) equipment gets lesser attention, (2) valuable track space is occupied for hours at a time at Chicago, and (3) chronically late trains lead to more chronically late trains (although that happens regardless these days).

In fact, I think that the current Sunset schedule restricts the train's ability to position in the travel market, aside from its lateness. A seperate NOL-ORL train would allow Amtrak to focus resources more effectively, in my opinion.
 
If NOL-ORL were made daily as well, It could also begin DAILY service Chicago-NOL-JAX-SAV-CHS-ORL-Tampa-Miami, and vice-versa, if schedules coiuld be adjusted accordingly, and I don't think that would violate the loan terms since those are all existing routes... Making CONL a daily CHI-ORL and adjusting that and the Silver scheds a bit maybe could do all that.
 
I actually would prefer to see the train go all the way to Miami if you're going to make it a daily thing. There are no connections to be made, and plus it'd bring back three trains to Miami daily and create more jobs for the guys in JAX ang HIA.
 
It would certianly be nice to have it all the way to MIA, but I dunno that you'd be able to justify the additional costs from a pax volume standpoint. Orlando has much more pax volume than Miami, and in fact is second (in Florida) only to Auto-Train, but Auto-Train really doesn't count since it is not something that you can make a connection from or to (not enough baggage space to put your car on the Star, and it exceeds the size limits for a carry-on :) ) unless you are going to long-term park your car at Sanford, but if that's the case, why pay to have Auto-Train deliver it? If you could adjust Silver scheds so that you'd have a pretty much guaranteed connection in both directions from jax/orl, you'd be all set. Connex south from Orlando, and north from Jax, I would think.
 
But if you make it just a 2-3 hr layover in Chicago then it wouldn't take up more time than backing out and backing in with another train. It would prob take more time if it wasn't a run-through, as you have to detrain everyone and the baggage and load up again. Don't see a big difference. Just wondering, how come the Sunset can have a run through in NO then?
 
Tom said:
But if you make it just a 2-3 hr layover in Chicago then it wouldn't take up more time than backing out and backing in with another train. It would prob take more time if it wasn't a run-through, as you have to detrain everyone and the baggage and load up again. Don't see a big difference. Just wondering, how come the Sunset can have a run through in NO then?
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Tom,

The run through in Chicago was eliminated for a couple of reasons. One, which was already mentioned, is a late arriving train that would then precipitate a late departing train. In the case of the Sunset, it's still the same train leaving NOL, not two different trains like it is in Chicago.

Run through service was also eliminated for two other reasons, one was safety/security of the passengers, who sometimes wanted to detrain for only a few minutes. The other reason was the fact that Amtrak started having big problems with theft from passenger luggage.

So for those reasons, run through service was eliminated several years ago, even before David Gunn took over as President of Amtrak.
 
But what if they named it and numbered it as one train from LA-Was DC, like the Sunset from LA-Orl? And the baggage thing. How come the Sunset doesn't have this problem then.
 
Tom said:
But what if they named it and numbered it as one train from LA-Was DC, like the Sunset from LA-Orl? And the baggage thing. How come the Sunset doesn't have this problem then.
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Well, yes if they gave it the same name east and west of Chicago, that might help some. However the market in NOL is very different than it is in Chicago. That's also part of the reason that they don't do run through service.

In New Orleans, if you are going east or west, there is only one choice. In Chicago there are four westbound trains and sadly now three eastbound trains. Used to be four.

So while there is some demand for a run through service, it's not the same level of demand as it is in NOL.

However, all of that aside, you'd still have to contend with the safety and theft issues. It won't be easy to overcome that.
 
Remember that the Sunset Limited did run from Miami to Los Angeles, from 1993 to 1997. It was shortened to Sanford to save one crew change, then re-adjusted to Orlando in 1998. :(
 
I think a run-through would be a great idea. Make it one transcontinental train to save a set of equipment. It is possible! Here's my proposal-

keep EB SWC and CL, WB SWC as is. Make the Westbound Capitol depart Was. at 8 instead of 4, allowing for a same-day turnaround. Arrive Chicago at around 12 instead of 8, still maintaining vital connections. Make the Empire and Zephyr depart at earliest 3 to keep connections. I don't see why this shouldn't work. As for servicing the train in Chi, just do whatever the Sunset does in NO. Has Amtrak even looked into this?
 
Ben said:
I think a run-through would be a great idea. Make it one transcontinental train to save a set of equipment. It is possible! Here's my proposal-keep EB SWC and CL, WB SWC as is. Make the Westbound Capitol depart Was. at 8 instead of 4, allowing for a same-day turnaround. Arrive Chicago at around 12 instead of 8, still maintaining vital connections. Make the Empire and Zephyr depart at earliest 3 to keep connections. I don't see why this shouldn't work. As for servicing the train in Chi, just do whatever the Sunset does in NO. Has Amtrak even looked into this?
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Ben,

One good reason why that won't work is the chronic timekeeping problems over the host railroad, particularly Norfolk Southern in Ohio and Indiana. If the Chicago arrival time is made that much later than it is now, and then the CAPITOL LIMITED gets delayed 2 or 3 more hours, you are going to potentially delay most of the westbound departures as well (or Amtrak will have the expense of putting up or sending by bus the misconnects).

The CAP is also timed to show off some scenery by daylight in the mountains of western Maryland. You'd miss all that if the train left Washington at 8 PM.

And another factor is the calling time in Pittsburgh. It's bad enough now, but that would put it well into the wee hours of the morning. This is especially important since the demise of the THREE RIVERS, because PGH is now a transfer point between the PENNSYLVANIAN and the CAPITOL. Making the passengers wait until 4 AM to board the second train would not fly too well. In fact, the people would fly! :lol: The good thing about this is that the CAP would actually stop in Cleveland in daylight. But that doesn't mean much to people from Cleveland if they are going to miss their connections in Chicago.
 
Instead of letting the city of new orleans sit in new orleans almost 24 hours between trips run it west to houston or run it east to jacksonviile. It would cover the route of the sunset but it would give daily service to that area.Houston would be great its only about 8 hours between new orleans and houston so the set would get into houston around 11 pm or midnight and could leave houston early the next day.

Comments?
 
Nowhere to turn the train in Houston; no crews. This is the reason that the Sunset turns in San Antonio now.
 
But if the westbound CP arrives in Chi at noon, then it would still have 4 hrs to connect with the westbound trains. Make the westbound trains leave at around 4 instead of 3:30 and you're set. This would save Amtrak a set of superliner equipment, which is invaluable. Plus if the S1516 bill passes, which would REQUIRE freight RRs giving Amtrak priority, the delays bt Chi and Cleveland would be cut by a lot. Just out of curiosity, what kind of "repair" work gets done at Chi after the SWC arrives and the departure of the next day's CP? Is it major or minor? Can't it be done in Was instead?
 
Also why doesn't the Sunset have any "security" issues in NO with its 6 hr layover?
 
Exactly, so if the SWC and CL are combined into one train, like the National Limited planned a few years ago, crews would be on the train and there would be no security problems. It would run LA-Was, with shortened layovers, especially westbound, so that there can be a same day turn in Was. If the S1516 passes, the CL would have less or no freight interference, making it a lot more reliable. I don't see why everyone is against this plan. The lateness of trains would be mitigated by the 4 hour layover in Chicago. The security of the train in Chicago would be solved by making it one train, having crews stay onboard. Cars could be repaired in Washington instead of Chicago.
 
Ben said:
Exactly, so if the SWC and CL are combined into one train, like the National Limited planned a few years ago, crews would be on the train and there would be no security problems.   It would run LA-Was, with shortened layovers, especially westbound, so that there can be a same day turn in Was.  If the S1516 passes, the CL would have less or no freight interference, making it a lot more reliable.  I don't see why everyone is against this plan.  The lateness of trains would be mitigated by the 4 hour layover in Chicago.  The security of the train in Chicago would be solved by making it one train, having crews stay onboard.  Cars could be repaired in Washington instead of Chicago.
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Washington isn't a Superliner shop plus it wouldn't be reliable as one train. I would want to keep them seperate. I want the runthru abolished. I rest my case.
 
Ben said:
Just out of curiosity, what kind of "repair" work gets done at Chi after the SWC arrives and the departure of the next day's CP? Is it major or minor? Can't it be done in Was instead?
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Some inspections are based on mileage. If equipment gets bad-ordered, there wouldn't be enough time to make the proper set outs and such before the Capitol Limited left. Also, sometimes equipment needs to go in for further inspection every so often. There is a facility in Chicago to do these inspections (and it is also closer to Beech Grove, if cars need to go there), and not in DC.
 
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