Three Rivers and Palmetto

[guest traveler]

Just came across a 2004 Amtrak schedule stuffed away in clutter inside the garage.

Wondering if anyone can explain why the Three Rivers was cancelled and the Palmetto eliminated between Savannah and Miami? Other than the stoppage of the Sunset east of New Orleans, those seem to be the major changes between then and now, save for frequency additions and deletions on routes. For an eight-year period, the system as a whole appears remarkably stable given the constant sturm-und-drang about Amtrak's financial picture.

 

[the_traveler]

Two of the main reasons were the loss of the US Mail contract and the discontinuance of the Rail Runner (freight express) service.

 

[AlanB]

Rail Runner is a commuter rail service in New Mexico. Amtrak's freight program was ExpressTrak.

And the Palmetto stopped going to Miami, in part because that's an overnight run and no one wanted to go without sleepers and a dinner. Plus going to Savannah meant only needing two consists, instead of three.

The Three Rivers went away in part because of the loss of freight, and in part to the loss of its sleeper and low ridership. Plus Amtrak needed the equipment elsewhere at that time.

 

[xyzzy]

Amtrak's first Palmetto was coach-only. It was extended south to Jacksonville in 1988 and extended again to Tampa in 1994 with sleeper and diner added. In 1995 the entire train was killed. It came back in 1996 as the Silver Palm (a name that Amtrak had used once before for intra-Florida service) running all the way to Miami. In 2002 the sleeper and diner were yanked again; the train's name reverted to the Palmetto. In 2004 the train was truncated to Savannah.

Enough to make your head spin!

 

[johnny.menhennet]

The Three Rivers went away in part because of the loss of freight, and in part to the loss of its sleeper and low ridership. Plus Amtrak needed the equipment elsewhere at that time.

While I agree with the other points, wasn't the equipment taken out of service? The lack of retention toilets made the Heritage sleepers not worth overhauling, AFAIK.

 

[Trainut]

Yes johnny.menhennet, you are right. My wife and I rode on the Three Rivers 3 days before they pulled it. We had to go through 3 rooms before we found one we were able to use,VERY beat up and water leaks all over. I did notice that the toliets were direct dump.

The conducter said they had "concession", because the cars days were limited.

 

[AlanB]

The Three Rivers went away in part because of the loss of freight, and in part to the loss of its sleeper and low ridership. Plus Amtrak needed the equipment elsewhere at that time.

While I agree with the other points, wasn't the equipment taken out of service? The lack of retention toilets made the Heritage sleepers not worth overhauling, AFAIK.

Actually Johnny, they pulled the Heritage sleeper after the waiver expired on the direct dump toilets and started using a Viewliner. I'm thinking that the Viewliner ran for at least 6 months, maybe longer before the train met its demise.

And it wasn't just retention toilets, the cars would have needed new trucks and some other work to stay on the road. So Amtrak decided it wasn't worth that cost to keep them running.

 

[Trogdor]

I'm thinking that the Viewliner ran for at least 6 months, maybe longer before the train met its demise.

A bit longer than that. Viewliner came along in fall 2001. Train was discontinued in March 2005. It ran without a sleeper for, I think, the last six months (during the 180-day discontinuation notice period).

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Amtrak's first Palmetto was coach-only. It was extended south to Jacksonville in 1988 and extended again to Tampa in 1994 with sleeper and diner added. In 1995 the entire train was killed. It came back in 1996 as the Silver Palm (a name that Amtrak had used once before for intra-Florida service) running all the way to Miami. In 2002 the sleeper and diner were yanked again; the train's name reverted to the Palmetto. In 2004 the train was truncated to Savannah.

Enough to make your head spin!

Yeah, I know, kinda like the Cadinal or BOS-LSL.

 

[CREW-DORM#2524]

The pre-2004 Palmetto did not carry any ExpressTrak reefers but did carry 12-15 RoadRailers under the contract with the USPS.