Three Rivers/Pennsylvanian to be consolidated

[Trogdor]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04247/372747.stm

 

[engine999]

I think Amtrak is makin g a grave mistake. Its one thing cutting a train with low ridership, however the three rivers and pennslyvanian having been doing very well in the last few months. I think having the two train options to pitsburg from nyp also was a good idea. Allows people to decide which time is more conient for them.

 

[Guest]

I think Amtrak is makin g a grave mistake.  Its one thing cutting a train with low ridership, however the three rivers and pennslyvanian having been doing very well in the last few months.  I think having the two train options to pitsburg from nyp also was a good idea.  Allows people to decide which time is more conient for them.

There are a lot of routes besides New York to Pittsburgh that having two train options would be a good idea.

 

[P40Power]

So the PIT-CHI Portion of the Three Rivers is gonna be gone, wow what a shame! How was ridership on this portion of the route anyways?!

 

[Guest_Chatter163]

The changes are much more involved than just these routes.

Amtrak press release on upcoming schedule changes

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

The changes are much more involved than just these routes.
Amtrak press release on upcoming schedule changes

Yep, the "Palmetto Bug" will soon be departing Florida for good! The situation is good for TPA and LAK, but for WDO, OCA, WWD, and DDE it means no train service any longer, but a darned bus! And as for jobs, it doesn't look too good either. :angry:

 

[saxman]

I rode the 3R from Youngstown to Chicago. It was much more convenient then going all the way to Cleveland. But it is true that Cleveland, Toledo, South Bend has a higher population base. It will also provide extra equipment for other routes. But as always, sad to see something go.

Chris

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

I'm going to be interested to see how the loss of mail will affect the Builder. Now, I know it'll still be running, but I'm interested to see how much time it'll save during the stop at MSP.

 

[engine999]

The changes are much more involved than just these routes.
Amtrak press release on upcoming schedule changes  

Yep, the "Palmetto Bug" will soon be departing Florida for good! The situation is good for TPA and LAK, but for WDO, OCA, WWD, and DDE it means no train service any longer, but a darned bus! And as for jobs, it doesn't look too good either. :angry:

Amtrak would probably get good passanger loads from those station if they offer sevice at reasonable hours of the day. Maybe they will bring back train splitting on one of the two fl service trains.

 

[Trogdor]

The press release implied that the Silver Star would stop in Tampa, then head down to Miami.

 

[AlanB]

The changes are much more involved than just these routes.
Amtrak press release on upcoming schedule changes  

Yep, the "Palmetto Bug" will soon be departing Florida for good! The situation is good for TPA and LAK, but for WDO, OCA, WWD, and DDE it means no train service any longer, but a darned bus! And as for jobs, it doesn't look too good either. :angry:

Amtrak would probably get good passanger loads from those station if they offer sevice at reasonable hours of the day. Maybe they will bring back train splitting on one of the two fl service trains.

The times will be reasonable, in fact quite nice. The northbound will call at 5:22 PM while the southbound will call at 10:35 AM. This should really help to increase ridership from the Tampa area.

 

[AlanB]

The press release implied that the Silver Star would stop in Tampa, then head down to Miami.

Actually I thought the press release was rather vague about just what the Star was going to do.

The press release only says:

The Florida cities of Lakeland and Tampa, now served by the Palmetto, will be served instead by the New York-Orlando-Miami Silver Star.

However it doesn't really say that it will continue to be the New York-Orlando-Miami Silver Star. It might well become the New York-Orlando-Tampa Silver Star.

 

[battalion51]

No. Now that Amtrak has officially spilled the beans, it will continue to Miami. This scenario was highly discussed for last fall's schedule change when the Palmetto was going to be trimmed back to Jacksonville. The scenario played out exactly as I was told it would. The Star will leave Miami later than it currently does, Noonish I believe. It will probably arrive in Miami around the same time it does now, but everything North of Tampa will be radically different. The other unknown in this equation is the Meteor, will it keep its current schedule or will it be changed around, that remains to be seen. Bids will probably occur for these new jobs sometime early to the middle of next month, once the bid list comes out I'll try to get my hands on it to see what the scheduling will be. One thing the Press release makes pretty much certain is that the Tampa side jobs will be high seniority since it'll require at least 24 hours in Tampa/Lakeland/Winter Haven, which means 8 hours of held away pay.

 

[battalion51]

BTW, depending on my parents I'm going to try do a Halloween trip on the final run of the Palmetto through to South Florida.

 

[engine999]

BTW, depending on my parents I'm going to try do a Halloween trip on the final run of the Palmetto through to South Florida.

Id like to go on the S-line before it shuts down, however I dont think I will be able to do it. Hopefully service will be restored to the s-line at a later point in time.

 

[Amfleet]

With the Three Rivers being eliminated and the Palmetto cut back to Savannah will capacity be added to the Silver Meteor or Silver Star. Atleast one of the two could get a third sleeper and both a couple more coaches.

 

[battalion51]

I personally think it'd be a better move to try to get those sleepers back over to the Federal/Twilight Shoreliner/Regional because it could probably use it the best. A Silver Service train requires 4 sets while I think the Three Rivers only needs 3 sets. There will definitely be more Amfleet II Coaches and Lounges in the pool since the Palmetto cut back opens up two full trainsets to the pool, maybe the Boston side of the LSL will consistently have Amfleet II Coaches and Lounge.

 

[kairho]

Living in Ocala the Palmetto will be missed but, truth be told, I only used it for southbound trips. Going north and west, Deland or Palatka add only an hour to driving time and they run at more reasonable times.

As to employment, only one station attendand will be lost in Ocala and he has only been on the job about 3 or 4 months. So overall I don't think it is a major crisis here: but reading tomorrow's paper will tell more.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

If I read all this correctly it will finally give Orlando area pax (including us ) the possibility of a day trip to Tampa, arriving there at 10-something in the morning, and departing Tampa at 5-something in the afternoon. I do regret not riding the S-line to this point, though.

 

[National Limited]

Any speculation as to what the new schedule of the Palmetto will be? I travel from Savannah when I travel Amtrak. Do you think there will be a schedule change in the Meteor? The current schedule works well for me--depart Savannah in early evening arrive in NYC mid morning, assuming of course the train is on time.

 

[WICT106]

I could see re-routeing a Chicago - Pittsburgh - Philly - NYC train over to the current route of the Capitol Ltd., but to discontinue service completely between Philly and CHI via PGH is a serious error. As other members of the Forum (and those who have met me in real life) are aware, I enjoy rail travel, and am a bit of a rail advacate. I had the opportunity to take the three rivers twice last year (one time was to attend my brother's graduation from Graduate School in Philly , the other time was when the Empire Builder was delayed last march on account of derailments in ND - it made me 6 hours late into Chicago, so I was offered a substitution because I wasn't able to catch the Capitol Ltd.), and both times the crew was curteous and professional in their demeanor and proficient in their job performance. Obviously, I think that we need to increase ridership by offering *more* trains, *more* departures, and a higher frequency of serivce to more destinations. That means that in order to concentrate on Amtraks "core business responsibilities," this train should be re - routed or re-scheduled, not eliminated.

 

[engine999]

Im shure more people would consider the three rivers if it offered more sleeperes and a full dining car. IIRC it was the fastest train from Chi to the east coast.

 

[battalion51]

As far as the Palmetto goes I'd have to think in theory it will have similar times to what it has now, since it's supposed to deliver daylight service to the Carolinas. But as I see it the Star would be running awfully close to it if I'm doing the radio math right.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

As far as the Palmetto goes I'd have to think in theory it will have similar times to what it has now, since it's supposed to deliver daylight service to the Carolinas. But as I see it the Star would be running awfully close to it if I'm doing the radio math right.

If my memory serves me correctly, they may return to the same or similar schedule prior to 1994. Both trains left SAV and NYP at about 07:00:00 and arrived at their terminating points around 23:00:00 or so. Train #89's schedule is currently close to the old one, but #90's is earlier than the old schedule by several hours.

This situation seems to be playing out almost exactly as I thought it was/is going to do! I just feel it's ashame to kill that service on the S-line completely. As far as the benefits to the A-line (bringing service back to TPA via ORL, sleeper service, etc) it seems to be a great deal. But killing the S-line is a bad decision on the part of managment in my opinion. Daylight service over there would open up the S-line to it's old time potential. I don't have very much faith in management, but I presume they know what they are doing (I hope)! I am concerned about the job situation, however, that remains to be seen. I won't be out of a job, I just may have to go elsewhere to work it.

 

[A Voice]

I just feel it's ashame to kill that service on the S-line completely. As far as the benefits to the A-line (bringing service back to TPA via ORL, sleeper service, etc) it seems to be a great deal. But killing the S-line is a bad decision on the part of managment in my opinion. Daylight service over there would open up the S-line to it's old time potential. I don't have very much faith in management, but I presume they know what they are doing (I hope)

What I've seen questioned on several boards, but never really answered, is how Amtrak can discontinue the "S" line without the required 180 day notice. Nowhere within the law or related documents, at least that I can find, does it mention anything about a bus being an acceptable substitute (Notice of Discontinuance ). If it was, there would be no need to have operated the Three Rivers, Kentucky Cardinal, or Lake Country Limited for the duration (or indeed, the Desert Wind & Pioneer for their then 90 day requirements). Amtrak appears to be using a curious (to say the least) interpretation of this law, and I'd love to know the justification for it.

The purpose of the 180 day requirement is to give another entity (such as the state of Florida) the chance to assume, or at least to consider, the costs of retaining the train. Now, there may be no chance of Florida ever doing so, but such as with the efforts which saved the Texas Eagle, the opportunity must be provided.