TSA @ Chicago Union Station - July 5, 2012

[Eric S]

Amtrak Police and TSA conduct random screenings regularly at PHL. Besides some visual inspection, they use this hand-held device:

Smiths Detection

The process seems pretty quick and non-intrusive. I've never seen it cause a back-up. I would expect the process at CHI is the same.

Yep, that's what I've seen TSA using at CHI as well.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Just hope they know how to read them to prevent false positives. After all they don't fully train the police dogs has alc_rail_writer would tell you.

 

[Ryan]

Hate to be the wet blanket, but with the mass confusion that is Union Station, that COULD be a target for an attack. People just walk in from the street, and there's nothing to restrict movement anywhere. I don't WANT TSA anywhere, but someday there's gonna be an "event" and then movement will be greatly curtailed..

If you prevent the free circulation of people and cause massive congesion and long queues concentrating a lot of people into a restricted space, you are making it easier for terrorists to kill a lot of people. Such checks are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

This.

How hard do you think it would be for a dozen people to detonate carry on bags filled with explosives while standing in line at a security checkpoint?

What do you think would happen if it were to happen at a dozen airports across the US within a 5 minute period of time?

 

[George Harris]

Anybody who has ever dealt with safety studies knows that you cannot protect everything against everything. you end up going for "ALARP", which, depending upon who is talking can ge defined as either, "As low as reasonably possible" or "as low as reasonably practical" You still end up with arguements about how far you can go with "reasonable" and what is the limit of "practical" or "possible"

When it come to these "what if" discussions in public, at what point does it become a thread for giving ideas to potential terrorists? If you have these wonderful ideas of possible terrorists scenarios, may I suggest that you keep your lips firmly together and your hands away from the keyboard until the urge to show how good you are at dreaming up these things passes. For the most part we are dealing with the brightest bulbs on the shelf, so why help them out?

By the way, when studies are done about safety against terrorist or criminal acts as part of a project, the results are not subject to discovery under the freedom of information act.

 

[RRUserious]

If you prevent the free circulation of people and cause massive congesion and long queues concentrating a lot of people into a restricted space, you are making it easier for terrorists to kill a lot of people. Such checks are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Not really going to disagree. Now the alertness of the world has restricted effective terrorism to places like Pakistan which is partly RUN by terrorists (the ISI). So I'd say that the global watch on terrorist groups is probably far more effective than most of what Homeland Security does. But I'd still say that there has to be some sort of attention (not screening) in every public place. Before 2001, the whole world knew of problems but just went on its way as if what it knew didn't matter. Now at least the world generally agrees that it matters. That is progress.

 

[Exiled in Express]

TSA was sscreening slowing the boarding of the Hiawatha again today. Amtrak Police were doing the selection and sent the minimum number of people they could.

 

[Ryan]

If you have these wonderful ideas of possible terrorists scenarios, may I suggest that you keep your lips firmly together and your hands away from the keyboard until the urge to show how good you are at dreaming up these things passes.

Right, because we're really throwing out some farfetched ideas here.

For the most part we are dealing with the brightest bulbs on the shelf, so why help them out?

The biggest mistake we can really make is to underestimate them and their intelligence. Certainly they have their fare share of dim bulbs, but they exist in every community. But they also have their fair share of smart dudes as well.

 

[Ispolkom]

So, is it a waste of time? Could well be. It is a problem that adversely impacts the enjoyment of Amtrak travel? The way it is being conducted today, I can't see that at all.

Oh sure, the TSA's shenanigans don't put me off train travel in the least. TSA security theater at Chicago Union Station is like a bad production by some small, local theater company. It's easy to ignore. TSA security theater at O'Hare airport, on the other hand, is like one of those experimental fringe festival shows Mrs. Ispolkom drags me to, where I know that there's going to be some painfully, embarassingly bad audience participation.

If you have these wonderful ideas of possible terrorists scenarios, may I suggest that you keep your lips firmly together and your hands away from the keyboard

The day may come when I'm afraid, for whatever reason, to mock my government that I help elect and pay for, when it's doing something stupid, wasteful, and pointless. I've certainly lived in countries where I watched what I said and wrote. But that sad day, if it ever comes, isn't here yet.

Obligatory Onion article: Al-Qaeda Claims U.S. Mass Transportation Infrastructure Must Drastically Improve Before Any Terrorist Attacks

Best line: "He also revealed the terrorist organization had wasted six months planning to take down Amtrak's regional operations before realizing that with its constant delays and malfunctions, the government-owned passenger train service "basically terrorizes itself.""

 

[George Harris]

If you have these wonderful ideas of possible terrorists scenarios, may I suggest that you keep your lips firmly together and your hands away from the keyboard

The day may come when I'm afraid, for whatever reason, to mock my government that I help elect and pay for, when it's doing something stupid, wasteful, and pointless. I've certainly lived in countries where I watched what I said and wrote. But that sad day, if it ever comes, isn't here yet.

You missed my piont entirely. It had nothing whatsoever to do with our government or what anyone in it might think of what we say here. It had to do with providing information and ideas to those who would like to do damage as to both the how adn what and what sort of reaction the act would cause.

 

[SubwayNut]

Oh Great. I take the train because I don't have to go thru this Kabuki Theater that is the TSA at the airport, now this. What next TSA on Megabus?

I guess I will stick to driving.

Well on my last long trip I had to go through 'security' at the Houston, Texas Greyhound Station to get my bus to Dallas (after getting a long photo essay of the Houston Amtrak station stepping off the Sunset Limited). It felt a little bit like being at the airport, went to the ticket counter to pick up my will-call ticket and even started at a kiosk that let me print my own bag tag for my bag going under the bus (the only Greyhound Station I've found a kiosk at). An agent though gave me an odd look when I asked for the tag to actually put the print-out onto my bag and insisted on re-weighing it and looking at my drivers lincse. Next I dragged all of my luggage including my bag going under the bus with me) down a corridor that said for ticketed passengers only where there were two ladies from a random security firm with a table and wands. They insisted (and did this to every passenger) on looking in my carry-on computer bag, but not my bag going under the bus. They also quickly wanted me. I then kept lugging my non-searched backpack that was going beneath the bus into the boarding lounge were I waited for my bus and briefly unpacked to grab my travel blanket worried about being cold. The security check virtually pointless since I was able to unpack my 'checked' luggage.

At least the security guards in Houston were better than the ones in Nashville, Tennessee where apparently it is illegal to stand directly outside the Greyhound station on the public sidewalk of a city street, you are told that you must walk away from the station immediately even if waiting for a ride from a guard who mans the one unlocked door of the super busy terminal while other doors are locked and blocked by potted plants.

Those are my two stories of ridiculous bus station security theater from my Tennessee to Texas to Colorado trip.

I did take MegaBus twice also and they never even bothered to check IDs, the only time I saw Amtrak police were when I began the trip on the Northeast Corridor. Definately got asked for ID from the conductors on multiple occasions on my long distance legs as well as on the Heartland Flyer.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

So, is it a waste of time? Could well be. It is a problem that adversely impacts the enjoyment of Amtrak travel? The way it is being conducted today, I can't see that at all.

Best line: "He also revealed the terrorist organization had wasted six months planning to take down Amtrak's regional operations before realizing that with its constant delays and malfunctions, the government-owned passenger train service "basically terrorizes itself.""

Epic !

we are kicking our own rear ..

Peter

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If you have these wonderful ideas of possible terrorists scenarios, may I suggest that you keep your lips firmly together and your hands away from the keyboard

The day may come when I'm afraid, for whatever reason, to mock my government that I help elect and pay for, when it's doing something stupid, wasteful, and pointless. I've certainly lived in countries where I watched what I said and wrote. But that sad day, if it ever comes, isn't here yet.

You missed my piont entirely. It had nothing whatsoever to do with our government or what anyone in it might think of what we say here. It had to do with providing information and ideas to those who would like to do damage as to both the how adn what and what sort of reaction the act would cause.

By that sort reasoning if we simply promise to never speak of any evil there may cease to be evil in this world. I suppose only ignorant people would ever commit evil acts and without well meaning Samaritans inadvertently offering their assistance those who would seek to harm others would be less destructive or perhaps even harmless. As I recall, the events of April 19, 1995 and September 11, 2001 were alluded to in the prior work of books, movies, comics, and official government threat assessments. By your reasoning if we had simply self-censored every possible mention of every possible terrorist attack we may never have suffered any. The less we speak about it the safer we become. Problem solved. Right?

Last I checked we are a nation that seeks to promote and protect our freedoms and those of other peoples and nations. As such we should not cower in fear or entertain accepting fleeting security in exchange for loss of liberty. Unfortunately we are also a nation that is slowly forgetting what true freedom even looks like anymore. I remember when there was no TSA at the airport. No checkpoint charlies on I-10. No programmable drones buzzing above our heads. There were no naked photo machines, no vigorous grouping, and no hour-plus security lines. Anyone could go to any gate they pleased and spend the day watching and photographing whatever they pleased. Unfortunately, children who are born today will never know what those days were like. All they will know firsthand is what they've seen themselves. And that's the shame of it really. All it takes for our country to lose our freedoms is for us to forget what true freedom actually looks like. And the easiest way to do that is to simply stop talking about it.

 

[RRUserious]

Stop talking about our transportation system and the terrorists have won. Keep talking. And the terrorists lose.

 

[George Harris]

It is obvvous that people are missing my point. I give up on trying to explain it.

Who was it amongst teh founding fathers that said something on the order of, "He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."

Let's try this: Treat them like the schoolyard bully and ignore them as much as possible.

I am not going to waste my time running around like a headless chicken thinking the sky is falling. In general, I ignore the whole charade as much as possible, but then I do not have to fly a lot, either.

 

[AlanB]

They also quickly wanted me.

I sure hope that they wanded you, because what you wrote wouldn't be very good at all and would probably violate a dozen rules or so.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

It is obvvous that people are missing my point. I give up on trying to explain it.

Who was it amongst teh founding fathers that said something on the order of, "He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."

Let's try this: Treat them like the schoolyard bully and ignore them as much as possible.

I am not going to waste my time running around like a headless chicken thinking the sky is falling. In general, I ignore the whole charade as much as possible, but then I do not have to fly a lot, either.

I'm pretty sure I understood what you were getting at and agree with it.

I also don't live in fear. I try to be alert for my own personal safety but I'm not constantly looking at people or things as being potentially harmful to me or others.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Anybody who has ever dealt with safety studies knows that you cannot protect everything against everything. you end up going for "ALARP", which, depending upon who is talking can ge defined as either, "As low as reasonably possible" or "as low as reasonably practical" You still end up with arguements about how far you can go with "reasonable" and what is the limit of "practical" or "possible"

When it come to these "what if" discussions in public, at what point does it become a thread for giving ideas to potential terrorists? If you have these wonderful ideas of possible terrorists scenarios, may I suggest that you keep your lips firmly together and your hands away from the keyboard until the urge to show how good you are at dreaming up these things passes. For the most part we are dealing with the brightest bulbs on the shelf, so why help them out?By the way, when studies are done about safety against terrorist or criminal acts as part of a project, the results are not subject to discovery under the freedom of information act.

That's what I was thinking too, George.

 

[VentureForth]

Hate to be the wet blanket, but with the mass confusion that is Union Station, that COULD be a target for an attack. People just walk in from the street, and there's nothing to restrict movement anywhere. I don't WANT TSA anywhere, but someday there's gonna be an "event" and then movement will be greatly curtailed.

If, that is, you believe there is actually any longer any threat. I have to admit I'm dubious. But I was totally caught by surprise in 2001. I really thought they had matters under control back then.

How is that all that different from other major stations?

Yeah! Like Savannah, GA!

 

[Ryan]

It is obvvous that people are missing my point. I give up on trying to explain it.

Nope. Understand it perfectly, just disagree completely.

 

[Ispolkom]

It is obvvous that people are missing my point. I give up on trying to explain it.

I'm rejecting the rhetorical strategy of equating any criticism of the National Security State as giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy. It's one of the worst results of the September 2001 attacks, and I was surprised to find it used by someone with your probity and good sense.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

It is obvvous that people are missing my point. I give up on trying to explain it.

I'm rejecting the rhetorical strategy of equating any criticism of the National Security State as giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy. It's one of the worst results of the September 2001 attacks, and I was surprised to find it used by someone with your probity and good sense.

Not sure we're giving aid to the enemy (terrorists) by exposing potential targets, but I'm more concerned about "copy cat" type people trying something stupid just for the fun of it.

 

[CelticWhisper]

For what it's worth, there are a few petitions trying to stop this before it gains momentum.

White House petition.

Change.org petition.

SignOn.org petition (to abolish TSA altogether).

Considering the response to the original "Abolish TSA" petition at the White House petitions site, I'm not overly optimistic about any of these, but I'm putting them out there anyway. Anything I can do to help keep TSA's paws off my beloved Amtrak is energy well spent.

 

[Ryan]

Not sure we're giving aid to the enemy (terrorists) by exposing potential targets

We're not even exposing potential targets. It isn't like a terrorist has never been through an airport security line before.

The thought that they've never occurred to detonate an explosive in a crowd of people before is just silly, and the suggestion that the idea will occur to them after reading about it on a message board discussing Amtrak is beyond ridiculous.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Might as well put a check point and every grade crossing in the US and have them search your car before you cross over the tracks.

 

[RRUserious]

The announcement runs every few minutes in Union Station (CHI) to report suspicious objects or activities to uniformed staff. If the threat is so low that people hear it and blow it off, then maybe it isn't worth discussing. Me, I'm hoping anything remotely like a credible threat will be noticed. But, hey, how can you possibly avoid every situation that is a POTENTIAL threat? The Unabomber had an idea, a cabin in Montana. Anyone too nervous about it might consider that. Or how about a mass expulsion of everyone believing in Islam (oops, what about Tim McVeigh?)

Just makes you want to throw up your hands and say "A reasonable effort is all we can expect".