What do you think about the new viewliner design?

[AlanB]

Removing Room 12 from revenue service is unfortunate. The comm notification between the Sleeper and the BagDorm has merit. There are trips the SCA could occupy a Sleeper roomette when available. On heavy trips (sold-out) move the SCA to sleep in the BagDorm. Often during daylight SCA can find a non-occupied room to camp in.

The problem is that there are only 9 roomettes in the bag/dorm car. On a "heavy trip" that pretty much means that the rest of the crew takes over those 9 rooms. For the dining car we loose 5 rooms: Cook, Asst Cook, LSA, 2 - SA's; Cafe car we lose 1 room: LSA; coaches, it depends on the number of coaches, but with 3 or more that means at least 2 coach attendants. So with that, we've used up 8 of the 9 rooms.

So even with 2 sleepers, we're over the number of rooms available in the bag/dorm if we move the SCA's out of their sleepers. On a train like the Meteor or the LSL, we're way over capacity.

And this would also leave no rooms for Amtrak employees traveling on business for the company, forcing them into a revenue room.

So it just makes sense to keep the SCA with their car just like we do now. Too much confusion to move them some of the time, but not all of the time.

 

[Anderson]

Removing Room 12 from revenue service is unfortunate. The comm notification between the Sleeper and the BagDorm has merit. There are trips the SCA could occupy a Sleeper roomette when available. On heavy trips (sold-out) move the SCA to sleep in the BagDorm. Often during daylight SCA can find a non-occupied room to camp in.

The problem is that there are only 9 roomettes in the bag/dorm car. On a "heavy trip" that pretty much means that the rest of the crew takes over those 9 rooms. For the dining car we loose 5 rooms: Cook, Asst Cook, LSA, 2 - SA's; Cafe car we lose 1 room: LSA; coaches, it depends on the number of coaches, but with 3 or more that means at least 2 coach attendants. So with that, we've used up 8 of the 9 rooms.

So even with 2 sleepers, we're over the number of rooms available in the bag/dorm if we move the SCA's out of their sleepers. On a train like the Meteor or the LSL, we're way over capacity.

And this would also leave no rooms for Amtrak employees traveling on business for the company, forcing them into a revenue room.

So it just makes sense to keep the SCA with their car just like we do now. Too much confusion to move them some of the time, but not all of the time.

I agree, with the exception of the Cardinal. There, I think we'd have 2 coach attendants and 2-3 from the cafe/diner lite (or from a club diner if that was used instead). That's 4-5 right there...which leaves 4-5 slots. But I'll also grant that the Cardinal is a special case (and actually, if there is space, I would advocate selling any remaining bag-dorm roomettes...there should normally be about 4 of those open, which on a regular basis would be enough to IMHO sell a "restricted roomette").

 

[railiner]

If I am not mistaken, the Viewliner design is tapered inward slightly from its 'beltline' both downward (to clear highlevel platforms), and upward. The upward taper might possibly be for clearance in NEC tunnels, but I am not certain.

I would prefer a new single level car design to have straight sides like the heritage cars, but be the full 10' 6" width like the newer Amfleet and Horizon cars. They could have a recess at floor level like the Horizon cars to clear the hilevel platforms.

The reason would be to make the interiors more space efficient. Don't the Viewliner walls taper in toward the roof? That would take space away from the upper berth area. Straight sides would be easier for cleaning and for maintenance as well.

As for interior layout...perhaps they could at one end of the car incorporate a 'duplex' single room for say four rooms to offer a few single rooms while maximizing the space utilization of the high ceilings of the car. Such a layout, while maybe lowering the berth count of all double roomettes, would still perhaps add to the room count, and negate the loss of a room as mentioned in some earlier posts. Of course the attendant would occupy a single room.

 

[Larry H.]

Personally I think that having to traverse the car in the middle of the night to use a rest room is not my idea of a good design. Plus you never know what condition a public bathroom has been left in. I have walked into some pretty scary sites and when you have no choice your really in trouble. I agree that the view liner roomette design was poor when it came to placement of the toilet and the shabby curtain that refused to close for privacy. And I suppose that if your in a room with two then privacy again becomes an issue, but traveling alone a design such as the old pullman company used was superior in my book to the super liner design without one.

Larry

 

[NY Penn]

If one bathroom is a mess, one just has to go to the adjacent sleeper.

 

[AlanB]

If one bathroom is a mess, one just has to go to the adjacent sleeper.

Each Viewliner will have two public bathrooms.

 

[afigg]

Personally I think that having to traverse the car in the middle of the night to use a rest room is not my idea of a good design. Plus you never know what condition a public bathroom has been left in. I have walked into some pretty scary sites and when you have no choice your really in trouble. I agree that the view liner roomette design was poor when it came to placement of the toilet and the shabby curtain that refused to close for privacy. And I suppose that if your in a room with two then privacy again becomes an issue, but traveling alone a design such as the old pullman company used was superior in my book to the super liner design without one.

If you want your own bathroom on one of the Viewliners, you still have the option of booking a bedroom. Will cost more, sometimes a lot more, but the option is there if one of the bedrooms is available. The 50 current Viewliners with bathrooms are likely to be around for a few more years, as I would figure that, if Amtrak does overhaul and install new roomettes in the Viewliner Is, they won't start that project until all or most of the 25 new sleepers are delivered to minimize disruptions to fleet capacity.

As for taking out the bathrooms in the roomettes, if it improves reliability and cuts maintenance costs, that helps to keep the LD trains running while not adversely cutting service. From the posts I've seen on the subject, there are more who intensely dislike the toilet arrangement in the Viewliner roomettes than those who prefer it.

 

[Ctim2]

Alan, why does the attendant still need a room, why can they not use a spot in the bag-dorm?

Amtrak wants the attendant in the car that they are responsible for. Even in the coaches, a seat is blocked off for the attendant to sit down and rest from time to time. Yes, some rest more than others, but still they block off a seat. If there is no attendant's room, then they have no place to rest and have to keep running back to the dorm car anytime they have a few minutes to take a break. And if they're in the dorm, then it's too easy for them to hide all day long from the pax if they're a bad attendant. It's a bit harder to hide in their room in the sleeper, as people can at least bang on the door.

You have to also factor in the safety and resulting liability issue. In the event of an emergency day or night having a trained crew member in each car is a must! The second thing you hear about in any transportation emergency/crisis is crew availability and emergency performance.

TIm

 

[Blue Marble Travel]

Good news, to me personally. I don't enjoy anyone urinating that close to the place I sleep.

We know there will be no toilets in the roomettes. And they will look like the typical viewliner.

 

[Blue Marble Travel]

I agree with this, in concept. Increase the car capacity with the addition of some "single" roomettes, one berth only, staggered vertically like old slumbercoach rooms (or those on some models of 10-6 "heritage" sleepers). The single roomettes would sell at a lower cost, encouraging single travelers to book them. And this would allow Amtrak to maintain (or even increase) average car occupancy, if not berth count, despite the loss of room 12 to the SA.

The current roomettes, amputated of their toilettes (and, presumably, wash basins?) will be plenty spacious, no question. Perhaps excessively spacious for a solo rider? There is a strong market for budget sleepers, poorly catered to by single-level LD trains at the moment.

If I am not mistaken, the Viewliner design is tapered inward slightly from its 'beltline' both downward (to clear highlevel platforms), and upward. The upward taper might possibly be for clearance in NEC tunnels, but I am not certain.

I would prefer a new single level car design to have straight sides like the heritage cars, but be the full 10' 6" width like the newer Amfleet and Horizon cars. They could have a recess at floor level like the Horizon cars to clear the hilevel platforms.

The reason would be to make the interiors more space efficient. Don't the Viewliner walls taper in toward the roof? That would take space away from the upper berth area. Straight sides would be easier for cleaning and for maintenance as well.

As for interior layout...perhaps they could at one end of the car incorporate a 'duplex' single room for say four rooms to offer a few single rooms while maximizing the space utilization of the high ceilings of the car. Such a layout, while maybe lowering the berth count of all double roomettes, would still perhaps add to the room count, and negate the loss of a room as mentioned in some earlier posts. Of course the attendant would occupy a single room.