Does Amtrak Ever Deliberately Overbook?

[guest]

It's a given in the airline industry that all carriers deliberately overbook, based on algorithms that predict the percentages of no-shows for a given flight on a give day.

Does Amtrak every overbook in this manner? I would doubt that this would happen with sleeper accommodations--though I guess it could if the algorithm was precise enough---but what about with reserved coach seating on LD and regional trains?

 

[mfastx]

Pretty sure they do. I've been on an Acela where there were about 6 or 7 people chilling in the lounge car because they had nowhere to sit, lol.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I doubt they overbook on the LD routes. At least I hope they don't. If I get bumped from an American, Delta, United, US Air, or Southwest flight they can typically put me on another flight a couple hours later. What is Amtrak going to do? Put me on the next Sunset Limited a couple days later? Amtrak's network is too sparse to overbook without severely screwing over bumped passengers.

 

[railiner]

If all tickets were non changeable, 'use it, or lose it', like say Broadway show tickets, there would be no reason to overbook....Amtrak would get full revenue whether passengers showed up, or not......

 

[EB_OBS]

I've heard it's 4% of capacity.

 

[Guest]

I've been on the NE Regionals, where every seat is taken, and people have to stand.

 

[Ryan]

On the corridor you can have people riding on monthly passes, so that's more just a function of those passes being available.

 

[fillyjonk]

Don't some of the routes say something like "all-reserved trains" where you have to have a prior reservation? I've seen some pretty full Texas Eagles but I don't think they would overbook, except maybe for very short segments.

The corridor trains, it's probably another matter. Not a big deal for someone to have to hang out in the lounge/cafe car for an hour - it would be a big deal overnight on an LD train.

 

[Nathanael]

"All-reserved" trains, including all the long-distance trains, are never overbooked. "Unreserved trains" have people travelling who haven't "booked" (no reservation == no booking) -- thanks to things like monthly passes -- and they can therefore easily be overcrowded.

 

[the_traveler]

On the NEC (and maybe some other corridors) the trains are "all reserved", but those that have a monthly pass can board any Regional without a reservation. So it is possible to see some people standing on those trains. (I've yet to see it.)

 

[jis]

Usually, the amount of overbooking via monthlies on NEC Regional trains is not more than the number of seats available in the Cafe. So you will seldom see anyone really standing, even though the train is running with more passengers than there are legitimate seats. OTOH, it is often the case that you can only find a seat in the Cafe, at least when you board at stations like Metropark on rush hour trains headed south. Northbound usually it is easier to get a seat at Meetropark since on most occasions a dozen or more people get off at Metropark.

 

[lennyj17]

On the NEC the best time to witness "Overbooking" and Standees is during Holiday Weekends and Thanksgiving and Christmas week between NYP and PHL because of the Monthly/10-Trip (Unreserved) Commuters in the same segment. The lone NYP-bound AM Rush Hour Keystone (Departs Philly @ 7AM) will have standees into PHL, because HAR to PHL is Unreserved, and people prefer it to taking "slow as molasses" SEPTA.

 

[BCL]

Usually, the amount of overbooking via monthlies on NEC Regional trains is not more than the number of seats available in the Cafe. So you will seldom see anyone really standing, even though the train is running with more passengers than there are legitimate seats. OTOH, it is often the case that you can only find a seat in the Cafe, at least when you board at stations like Metropark on rush hour trains headed south. Northbound usually it is easier to get a seat at Meetropark since on most occasions a dozen or more people get off at Metropark.

That would be extremely interesting on the Keystone without any cafes. I suppose it would be possible to sit down near the ends.

 

[jis]

Usually, the amount of overbooking via monthlies on NEC Regional trains is not more than the number of seats available in the Cafe. So you will seldom see anyone really standing, even though the train is running with more passengers than there are legitimate seats. OTOH, it is often the case that you can only find a seat in the Cafe, at least when you board at stations like Metropark on rush hour trains headed south. Northbound usually it is easier to get a seat at Meetropark since on most occasions a dozen or more people get off at Metropark.

That would be extremely interesting on the Keystone without any cafes. I suppose it would be possible to sit down near the ends.

Yes, However, I was specifically talking of the Regionals. Keystones are Keystones. They are not Regionals.

 

[amamba]

My H has said that PVD - BOS is often very full on the 66 bc of commuters. Sometimes pl sit in te aisles when the cafe is full. But that is normally not very often but probably 50 ppl board regularly there.

 

[tonys96]

I have been on the Eagle before where there have been several pax "seated" in the SSL. Myself, I have been "seated" in the SSL. Not often, but a time or two, for sure. Every time it was between Texarkana and FTW. Once from Marshall to Dallas, once more from LVW to DAL, and once between DAL and FTW.

 

[railiner]

What about passengers holding tickets for a different time train just boarding, without bothering to change their tickets.....does this occur? Old habits from the "Unreserved" days on the NEC may die hard for some passengers..... Are all tickets checked by ushers before boarding?

In such a case, will the crew 'eject them' at the next station, or just charge them as unticketed or whatever?

 

[Acela150]

On the NEC the best time to witness "Overbooking" and Standees is during Holiday Weekends and Thanksgiving and Christmas week between NYP and PHL because of the Monthly/10-Trip (Unreserved) Commuters in the same segment. The lone NYP-bound AM Rush Hour Keystone (Departs Philly @ 7AM) will have standees into PHL, because HAR to PHL is Unreserved, and people prefer it to taking "slow as molasses" SEPTA.

Another thing is that an Amtrak ticket from say DOW, EXT, PAO, or ARD is cheaper then Septa now. That's just for a one way ticket. I'm sure the monthly passes are a little more high but not by much.

 

[Acela150]

What about passengers holding tickets for a different time train just boarding, without bothering to change their tickets.....does this occur? Old habits from the "Unreserved" days on the NEC may die hard for some passengers..... Are all tickets checked by ushers before boarding?In such a case, will the crew 'eject them' at the next station, or just charge them as unticketed or whatever?

Back in the days of paper tickets the conductors didn't really care. Now with eTickets it's a different story. I would imagine there is some work to get the change of trains and the ticket from another train to scan into the manifest. When at a station that has Ushers, Gate Agents, what ever you want to call them. They'll just say, Wrong train and direct them out of the line.

 

[railiner]

What about passengers holding tickets for a different time train just boarding, without bothering to change their tickets.....does this occur? Old habits from the "Unreserved" days on the NEC may die hard for some passengers..... Are all tickets checked by ushers before boarding?In such a case, will the crew 'eject them' at the next station, or just charge them as unticketed or whatever?

Back in the days of paper tickets the conductors didn't really care. Now with eTickets it's a different story. I would imagine there is some work to get the change of trains and the ticket from another train to scan into the manifest. When at a station that has Ushers, Gate Agents, what ever you want to call them. They'll just say, Wrong train and direct them out of the line.

Guess you can tell I haven't ridden in quite a while....since before the advent of 'E' tickets

I did mean with old fashioned paper tickets.

And the person checking tickets at the gates at NYP and I imagine at other former PRR stations were called, in Pennsy parlance, Usher's. Believe they still are...

 

[jis]

I was chatting with the conductor on the Acela that I was on the other day. He said in general as long as his train is not sold out he will accept ticket from another train and happily collect the difference between the original fare and his bucket. I did not ask if that would be the top bucket. He said if the train is officially sold out he will offload said passenger at the next stop.

I have been voluntarily boarded on the Adirondack to NYP at ALB while holding a ticket on the Maple Leaf, and the conductor just scanned the ticket and did not appear to do anything special beyond that, though he might have done so later.

So apparently Conductors continue to have considerable leeway and discretion on what they can do even with E-Tickets.

At most NEC stations ushers are a non issue since a determined person can get to the platform without ever seeing one. There are only a couple of stations where it is hard to avoid them.

 

[Trogdor]

Coach seats are overbooked, generally to about 3% of planned seated capacity. This includes long-distance trains. It's not too often that this results in folks sitting in the lounge, but it does occur. Sometimes, "overbooking" occurs due to equipment being bad-ordered..

On corridors with multi-ride tickets, the available capacity for sale is actually set below the seated capacity of the train, with the exact amount being dependent on the expected ridership of those multi-rides. That's more of a guess, but even still, it works out pretty well.

Then there are those who board a train other than the one for which they were ticketed. As I recall, it's only a couple of extra taps on the iPhone screen for them to take a ticket for a train other than the one they're working.

 

[Nathanael]

Coach seats are overbooked, generally to about 3% of planned seated capacity.

Amtrak guarantees every reservation-holder a seat on long-distance trains; that was actually published somewhere in the contract of carriage, as I remember reading it a few years ago...

I suppose the seats in the dining and cafe/lounge cars are in fact seats, though! With the longest LD train maxing out at somewhere under 390 coach seats, 3% would be only 12 seats, which is well within the cafe car seating capacity.

This includes long-distance trains. It's not too often that this results in folks sitting in the lounge, but it does occur. Sometimes, "overbooking" occurs due to equipment being bad-ordered..

If the lounge capacity is exceeded, people *are* offered the opportunity of staying overnight at Amtrak's expense and rebooking; I did see that happen during one meltdown of cancelled trains and rescheduling, where people needing to be rescheduled were being offered seats in the cafe until it filled up -- but not after.

 

[jis]

I have always believed that unless I have a specific assigned seat, guarantees don't mean a hill of beans. Even with assigned seat unforeseen circumstances can take it away. But without an assigned seat it is a crap shoot anyway, not matter how reserved the train is, and no matter how many guarantees are sworn on a stack of your favorite religious screed. After having stood from Metropark to Newark or Trenton on several occasions while holding a reserved ticket on an Amtrak Regional out of Metropark, I have become quite jaded about Amtrak's guarantees of seats. And actually I personally don't have a problem with being able to travel even though a seat is not available, on a corridor like the NEC.

 

[mfastx]

Amtrak guarantees every reservation-holder a seat on long-distance trains; that was actually published somewhere in the contract of carriage, as I remember reading it a few years ago...
I suppose the seats in the dining and cafe/lounge cars are in fact seats, though! With the longest LD train maxing out at somewhere under 390 coach seats, 3% would be only 12 seats, which is well within the cafe car seating capacity.

I was riding from Houston to New Orleans on the Sunset, and a couple of people didn't have seats and had to sit in the lounge car.