Fred Frailey compares the Empire Builder to the Canadian

[guest in the west]

Can someone explain why so many people find the Empire Builder superior to the CZ?

IMHO the scenery on the CZ is incomparable to any other Amtrak route because of its variety: you get the Midwest farms and plains, the Colorado Rockies and the unsurpassed Canyon of the Colorado, the red-iron cliffs of southern Utah and the Donner Pass and Sierra Nevada of California.

I don't believe that china plates and silverware in the dining car can cancel out the scenic advantages to the CZ. I found the Empire Builder, once it passed through Glacier Park in the morning hours, to feature scenery that was tedious at best, save for the hour or so on the final morning threading along the Mississippi into Wisconsin.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Why are BNSF dispatchers in Fort Worth?

Ft Worth is BNSF Railroad Corporate Headquarters.

I thought they would have put some in Fargo or something.

Can someone explain why so many people find the Empire Builder superior to the CZ?IMHO the scenery on the CZ is incomparable to any other Amtrak route because of its variety: you get the Midwest farms and plains, the Colorado Rockies and the unsurpassed Canyon of the Colorado, the red-iron cliffs of southern Utah and the Donner Pass and Sierra Nevada of California.

I don't believe that china plates and silverware in the dining car can cancel out the scenic advantages to the CZ. I found the Empire Builder, once it passed through Glacier Park in the morning hours, to feature scenery that was tedious at best, save for the hour or so on the final morning threading along the Mississippi into Wisconsin.

Because those "tedious" Great Plains are exactly what people like me look for. And the elevations on the CZ are often too high or low to enjoy the scenery.

Plus, I actually found it boring that the CZ was grinding through mountains for hours at 40 mph, so much so that I often dozed off during what people consider "the best part".

 

[guest in the west]

Why are BNSF dispatchers in Fort Worth?

Ft Worth is BNSF Railroad Corporate Headquarters.

I thought they would have put some in Fargo or something.

Can someone explain why so many people find the Empire Builder superior to the CZ?IMHO the scenery on the CZ is incomparable to any other Amtrak route because of its variety: you get the Midwest farms and plains, the Colorado Rockies and the unsurpassed Canyon of the Colorado, the red-iron cliffs of southern Utah and the Donner Pass and Sierra Nevada of California.

I don't believe that china plates and silverware in the dining car can cancel out the scenic advantages to the CZ. I found the Empire Builder, once it passed through Glacier Park in the morning hours, to feature scenery that was tedious at best, save for the hour or so on the final morning threading along the Mississippi into Wisconsin.

Because those "tedious" Great Plains are exactly what people like me look for. And the elevations on the CZ are often too high or low to enjoy the scenery.

Plus, I actually found it boring that the CZ was grinding through mountains for hours at 40 mph, so much so that I often dozed off during what people consider "the best part".

Elevations too high or low? Huh?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Why are BNSF dispatchers in Fort Worth?

Ft Worth is BNSF Railroad Corporate Headquarters.

I thought they would have put some in Fargo or something.

Can someone explain why so many people find the Empire Builder superior to the CZ?IMHO the scenery on the CZ is incomparable to any other Amtrak route because of its variety: you get the Midwest farms and plains, the Colorado Rockies and the unsurpassed Canyon of the Colorado, the red-iron cliffs of southern Utah and the Donner Pass and Sierra Nevada of California.

I don't believe that china plates and silverware in the dining car can cancel out the scenic advantages to the CZ. I found the Empire Builder, once it passed through Glacier Park in the morning hours, to feature scenery that was tedious at best, save for the hour or so on the final morning threading along the Mississippi intoWisconsin.

Because those "tedious" Great Plains are exactly what people like me look for. And the elevations on the CZ are often too high or low to enjoy the scenery.

Plus, I actually found it boring that the CZ was grinding through mountains for hours at 40 mph, so much so that I often dozed off during what people consider "the best part".

Elevations too high or low? Huh?

Like when you run out west of DEN, you're so high up that you can't see anything below. Or when you're just kinda stuck between rocks with no view over them.

 

[TVRM610]

Guest in the West - The Zephyr has the best scenery I've ever seen.. I agree with you it is one of the best journeys.

I really like the Empire Builder as well, and as for variety of scenery.. I think the Coast Starlight wins (Mountains, Ocean, River, Farms, and even the Golden Gate Bridge!)

The Empire Builder and Coast Starlight have been selected by Amtrak to be "premier" trains and it's much easier to compare them to the VIA Rail Premier train "Canadian" in terms of service. (wine tastings, china, improved bedding, etc.)

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Guest in the West - The Zephyr has the best scenery I've ever seen.. I agree with you it is one of the best journeys.
I really like the Empire Builder as well, and as for variety of scenery.. I think the Coast Starlight wins (Mountains, Ocean, River, Farms, and even the Golden Gate Bridge!)

The Empire Builder and Coast Starlight have been selected by Amtrak to be "premier" trains and it's much easier to compare them to the VIA Rail Premier train "Canadian" in terms of service. (wine tastings, china, improved bedding, etc.)

The Coast Starlight is the only one that comes close to the Canadian in my opinion, the Pacific Parlour is almost comparable to the Park Car.

 

[VentureForth]

Why are BNSF dispatchers in Fort Worth?

Ft Worth is BNSF Railroad Corporate Headquarters.

I thought they would have put some in Fargo or something.

Perhaps because of the favorable tax laws in Texas. Burlington Northern was based in Houston, TX at the time of the merger with ATSanta Fe, which happened to be based out of Chicago, IL at that time.

Why is Boeing based out of Chicago, even though no manufacturing is done there?

 

[Trogdor]

Because those "tedious" Great Plains are exactly what people like me look for. And the elevations on the CZ are often too high or low to enjoy the scenery.

Plus, I actually found it boring that the CZ was grinding through mountains for hours at 40 mph, so much so that I often dozed off during what people consider "the best part".

Elevations too high or low? Huh?

Reminds me of that scene in "Major League" where the group of fans was arguing about whether the opposing player's home run ball was hit too high or too far.

 

[RRrich]

I want to compare double rooms on the EB and the CAN. On the EB I think you get more sq feet of floor, with the bed up it is a bit more comfortable for a couple to spend time in the room, and you can nap while the bed is up

With the bed down in an Amtrak bedroom there is still room to sit - and Wifey and I find Amtrak lowers big enough for two as we are not allowed to bring our children, all of whom are furry, walk on four legs and do not speak English well. The bedding on the Canadian is superior to Amtrak, particularly the comforters.

Dining - Canadian beats Amtrak hands down - and a different menu of quality food every day, but one of the Canadian servers thought he was a comedian- we thought he was an ass :-(

 

[zephyr17]

Like when you run out west of DEN, you're so high up that you can't see anything below. Or when you're just kinda stuck between rocks with no view over them.
BTW, three posts to convey your point?

If you want to look down at stuff and go fast, why don't you fly? "Grinding through" the canyons and mountains is kind of the point of the CZ.

BTW, I completely agree with guest-in-the-west. The EB is my go-to train to go east, living in the Seattle area, and it is boring once you get out of Glacier. CZ, Coast Starlight and Southwest Chief all have consistently better scenery (in that order).

 

[Old MM]

I've been on the Canadian a few different times, for about an 8 hr day trip in coach each time.

my impressions;

Coach seating: Canucks win. more spacious, more room for families, more clean pillows.

[sleepers, would not know]

Diner: Canadian. Slim margin, and based on food quality.

Cafe car: Amtrak. Wide margin. Better selection, quality and pricing.

Staffing: 6 of one, half dozen of the other, slight edge to Canadian simply due to the generally more professional demeanor of Candian service workers. or maybe it's the accents.

Coach restrooms: SO Canadian. Window for natural light, easier to keep clean, etc.

Scenery: Tie. EB has its charms and so does the Canadian.

Bottom line, it depends where you are going!

P.S. Mr. Hudson, we all look forward to your trip report :giggle: :unsure: :giggle:

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Like when you run out west of DEN, you're so high up that you can't see anything below. Or when you're just kinda stuck between rocks with no view over them.
BTW, three posts to convey your point?

If you want to look down at stuff and go fast, why don't you fly? "Grinding through" the canyons and mountains is kind of the point of the CZ.

BTW, I completely agree with guest-in-the-west. The EB is my go-to train to go east, living in the Seattle area, and it is boring once you get out of Glacier. CZ, Coast Starlight and Southwest Chief all have consistently better scenery (in that order).

You are Zephyr17 after all. I knew what you would support.

 

[the_traveler]

The reason BNSF dispatchers are in FTW is the same reason UP dispatchers are in Omaha and CSX dispatchers are in JAX. It's called (maybe you've heard of them) computers!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The reason BNSF dispatchers are in FTW is the same reason UP dispatchers are in Omaha and CSX dispatchers are in JAX. It's called (maybe you've heard of them) computers!

So, back in the "golden age" they would be dispersed?

 

[the_traveler]

The reason BNSF dispatchers are in FTW is the same reason UP dispatchers are in Omaha and CSX dispatchers are in JAX. It's called (maybe you've heard of them) computers!

So, back in the "golden age" they would be dispersed?

Yes. And the orders were handled at each station.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The reason BNSF dispatchers are in FTW is the same reason UP dispatchers are in Omaha and CSX dispatchers are in JAX. It's called (maybe you've heard of them) computers!

So, back in the "golden age" they would be dispersed?

Yes. And the orders were handled at each station.

That makes sense now. Thanks for the info.

 

[Old MM]

one more: the SSL car vs Dome car.

VIA's dome observation car, on top of the Cafe car, cannot be beat for the expansive view overlooking the train.

however, Amtrak's SSL cars accommodate more people.

 

[guest]

one more: the SSL car vs Dome car.
VIA's dome observation car, on top of the Cafe car, cannot be beat for the expansive view overlooking the train.

however, Amtrak's SSL cars accommodate more people.

The VIA Panorama Cars are even better, with only a sliver of the roof not being glass!

 

[OBS]

one more: the SSL car vs Dome car.
VIA's dome observation car, on top of the Cafe car, cannot be beat for the expansive view overlooking the train.

however, Amtrak's SSL cars accommodate more people.

The VIA Panorama Cars are even better, with only a sliver of the roof not being glass!

Personal preference I guess, but I wasn't really impressed by the Panorama car.

 

[saxman]

I loved the Canadian, but to use it for actual transportation can be difficult. While it serves many small villages, it misses many other large towns, such as Regina, Thunder Bay, etc. Connections to other VIA services in the west are difficult too. Why does the Skeena depart Jasper a couple hours before the Canadian arrives in Jasper? I realize, they may want to force tourists to spend a day in the park and shopping and eating in the town, but it would be nice to connect on the same day. Same goes for the Winnipeg-Churchill train. You have to overnight in Winnipeg. The EB is much more utilitarian and makes it easier to use it as actual transportation when getting to those smaller North Dakota and Montana town. You can tell the type of people riding just by looking at them.

 

[Nathanael]

Canadian still wins hands down in my books.

Well, for me the Canadian gets an F for not running daily. It can be as nice as you can imagine once you're on the train, but the schedule renders it useless for me. It makes it impossible to use it for anything except a "cruise trip", and it makes it inconvenient even for that. In contrast, the Empire Builder can actually be used for transportation.

With regards to Fred Frailey's analysis, it's *not* coincidence. BNSF has developed an excellent reputation for dispatching Amtrak. CN has developed a *really bad* reputation for dispatching Amtrak and I'm not surprised to see it treating VIA the same way. (Full disclosure: I own stock in the parent companies of both BNSF and CN as well as several other railroads.)

 

[zephyr17]

You are Zephyr17 after all. I knew what you would support.

But I am not Zephyr5, which is why I like the Canadian

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

one more: the SSL car vs Dome car.
VIA's dome observation car, on top of the Cafe car, cannot be beat for the expansive view overlooking the train.

however, Amtrak's SSL cars accommodate more people.

The VIA Panorama Cars are even better, with only a sliver of the roof not being glass!

Personal preference I guess, but I wasn't really impressed by the Panorama car.

I can't see a huge difference compared to the SSL.

You are Zephyr17 after all. I knew what you would support.

But I am not Zephyr5, which is why I like the Canadian

:help:

 

[JayPea]

Some day I hope to be able to take the Canadian so I can make the comparison for myself!

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Some day I hope to be able to take the Canadian so I can make the comparison for myself!

I'm with you on that! Sounds like a possible mini-gathering when/if the prices are low enough. Maybe we could get group discount!?!