Is having no chef on the CONO permanent?

[niemi24s]

Great Western in the UK has a fresh cooked English breakfast . . .

What does one of these consist of? <oops, ended a sentence with a preposition!> Of what does one of these consist?

 

[jis]

Lots of greasy fatty stuff as I recall

 

[philabos]

Eggs, English bacon, fried tomatoes, baked beans, toast. Served on china.

 

[Bob Dylan]

And we thought New York has high Breakfast Prices!

 

[yarrow]

it still seems to me that bottom line for the passenger on the cono is that the meals are quite poor.

 

[Ziv]

Add Kaiser Permanente to the list of completely dysfunctional corporations. They have entered Comcast levels of incredibly bad service. KP actually discontinued my direct payment without telling me and then sent me a late notice threatening to cut off my insurance. So I call them to pay by phone and to re-set the service. Payment went fine, but setting up the auto payment took 25 minutes, and at the end, it didn't work. She told me to call again the next day. This after it took me 5 calls and nearly 2 weeks to set up, and the re-set up, my insurance this spring.

I just don't see Amtrak as getting to that level yet. Amenities are going away for now, but it would take just a few years of improved funding and steady, insightful leadership to get Amtrak back in the ball game.

Examine the progression of any business government or private over the years. When was the last time that you saw any business giving the customer more?

The businesses I deal with routinely give customers more. They're doing quite well. *Shrug*

They, of course, cater to the upscale market.

You must not work for an airline. Or a cable company.

 

[seat38a]

Those dishes didn't taste good? Hard to believe.

Way too overcooked. Was hard to finish them. The rest of the family said the same thing.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Those dishes didn't taste good? Hard to believe.

Way too overcooked. Was hard to finish them. The rest of the family said the same thing.

While they look good, I am still trying to figure out what they are, although Picture 1 looks like some kind of Steak on the top.

 

[niemi24s]

The large thing in the bottom pic looks like...uh..er...a meatsicle!

 

[seat38a]

Those dishes didn't taste good? Hard to believe.

Way too overcooked. Was hard to finish them. The rest of the family said the same thing.

While they look good, I am still trying to figure out what they are, although Picture 1 looks like some kind of Steak on the top.

Lamb shank.

 

[Larry H.]

I realize a lot of people on this site don't really care if the service is continually down graded, but I do. The cost of a sleeper is not any bargain for sure and the reduction in things that should be a normal part of rail long distance service have made me question if I even want to bother getting the new Amtrak Rewards card. I have several friends who used to travel by train a lot, but they too have stopped using Amtrak due to the lack of services and the higher and higher cost.

A diner never was made to be a money maker. It should be considered a part of operation of a decent service just as having the engine in place, the diner should be required as well. Where all this idea that its an expense that should be cut began lies with congress I suppose. I doubt that many of them have ever stepped foot abroad a train let along did any long distance travel. They all have superior food services in the capital especially for them and yet the public is supposed to be happy with the crumbs.

Its not a way to run a railroad that you want to build traffic on.

 

[BCL]

I realize a lot of people on this site don't really care if the service is continually down graded, but I do. The cost of a sleeper is not any bargain for sure and the reduction in things that should be a normal part of rail long distance service have made me question if I even want to bother getting the new Amtrak Rewards card. I have several friends who used to travel by train a lot, but they too have stopped using Amtrak due to the lack of services and the higher and higher cost.

A diner never was made to be a money maker. It should be considered a part of operation of a decent service just as having the engine in place, the diner should be required as well. Where all this idea that its an expense that should be cut began lies with congress I suppose. I doubt that many of them have ever stepped foot abroad a train let along did any long distance travel. They all have superior food services in the capital especially for them and yet the public is supposed to be happy with the crumbs.

Its not a way to run a railroad that you want to build traffic on.

While I suppose Amtrak has never turned an annual profit, I suppose the rationale is that it's supposed to at least try to minimize their subsidies. And there are a lot of members of Congress that are likely antagonistic against Amtrak.

 

[philabos]

Diners never made money. In the pre Amtrak era, it was the railroad subsidizing the loss. We all know every form of transport is subsidized, but it is a bit harder for Amtrak to justify subsidizing your steak dinner with taxpayer money. If they can cut the diner and have the cafe pay its own way they can get away from that argument. If they cannot keep up the revenue while doing so it is a downward spiral. Time will tell.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

As far as I know, nothing is prepared at the commissary. It is simply a supply depot.

Several AmChow meals are not prepared on board so they must be prepared in some distant commercial kitchen before they reach the commissary's freight warehouse.

I think we would all be surprised as to how much food is cooked "sous-vide" in many restaurants.

Sous-vide is usually associated with moist and flavorful food, not the bland and stale food served on today's Amtrak.

Airlines treat their upper class passengers plenty well and even improve service from time to time. It is the steerage where they do the serious cost cutting since there is also a serious support from the customers of serious ticket prices cutting. So it all balances out properly.

Unless you're taller than a teenager, in which case your $1,000 international flight just became a $5,000 flight for the privilege of not having your knees crushed by seats that are packed too tightly.

Giving Amtrak some credit here they have gotten much more transparent about how food is prepared in a full service diner. A number of entrees like the healthy option are reheated on-board, and the bacon is pre-cooked.

Being truly transparent would include putting that rather pertinent information right on the menu instead of hiding it on some random website most folks never visit or even hear about.

 

[jebr]

What would you suggest that they actually put on the menu to "be transparent"? I don't know of any restaurant (especially chain) that advertises that their entrees are made off-side and "re-heated" on-site, even on the menu.

 

[BCL]

What would you suggest that they actually put on the menu to "be transparent"? I don't know of any restaurant (especially chain) that advertises that their entrees are made off-side and "re-heated" on-site, even on the menu.

I was reading about a high priced restaurant in Vegas open only for dinner. However, they spent plenty of prep time cooking entrees ahead of time. When your meal arrives in 10 minutes, it's probably been reheated.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

What would you suggest that they actually put on the menu to "be transparent"? I don't know of any restaurant (especially chain) that advertises that their entrees are made off-side and "re-heated" on-site, even on the menu.

I never said other restaurants were transparent. I said that if Amtrak wanted to be considered truly transparent they should explain which meals consisted of precooked reheated food on the menu next to those options. If Amtrak doesn't want to be truly transparent then that's fine. If I was Amtrak I'd probably want to avoid talking about the freshness and quality of the food as much as possible. People often compare Amtrak to Chili's or Applebees but in my experience Amtrak meals are much closer to the generic reheated food you find at American sports arenas.

 

[Larry H.]

Diners never made money. In the pre Amtrak era, it was the railroad subsidizing the loss. We all know every form of transport is subsidized, but it is a bit harder for Amtrak to justify subsidizing your steak dinner with taxpayer money. If they can cut the diner and have the cafe pay its own way they can get away from that argument. If they cannot keep up the revenue while doing so it is a downward spiral. Time will tell.

Personally when I pay six hundred a night for the accommodation I don't feel like I am getting it with tax payer money.

 

[Larry H.]

What would you suggest that they actually put on the menu to "be transparent"? I don't know of any restaurant (especially chain) that advertises that their entrees are made off-side and "re-heated" on-site, even on the menu.

I will give some chains credit for a decent tasting entree even if its mostly produced off site. Amtrak has never been about to duplicate that quality for some reason. Perhaps it would be better for them to just order them from a chain that knows how to do it.

 

[CoachSlumber]

As much as you want to say Amtrak cuts services and charges more, the fact is that almost everything worthwhile has a cost. Amtrak certainly has to pay any chef for a given train. If the CONO (or any other train) has a chef, someone is paying for it and I guarantee corporate isn't.

Right now Amtrak's CONO has no chef. Assume they want to have one. Who pays? Here are the options.

1) All passengers/ raise everyone's prices $X. Would that turn passengers away? Are the current prices allowing for more business than the with chef prices would?

2) All sleeper car passengers $Y (and Y is larger than X previously). How would the increase affect sales?

3) All diner car customers pay $Z more per meal. Would that affect sales? Would customers more likely choose the cafe car food if the difference in price is higher?

If Amtrak can do 1, 2, 3, or any combination and not lose money on paying the chef, I would think they would be smart enough to do so

But I feel like I've been tricked. Am on CONO this week; when I bought my ticket, there was a chef and a better dining experience. I would not have booked this trip if I knew there was a glorified snack bar serving as the diner.

 

[Manny T]

Diners never made money. In the pre Amtrak era, it was the railroad subsidizing the loss. We all know every form of transport is subsidized, but it is a bit harder for Amtrak to justify subsidizing your steak dinner with taxpayer money. If they can cut the diner and have the cafe pay its own way they can get away from that argument. If they cannot keep up the revenue while doing so it is a downward spiral. Time will tell.

The statute authorizing Amtrak requires it to make money on food & beverage service. Apparently when Congress was authorizing Amtrak, they did indeed find it hard to justify the taxpayer subsidizing your steak dinner--hence the statute that requires Amtrak F&B to be profitable.

This has never happened in Amtrak's history. The shortfall (loss on F&B) comes up every year when Congress is asked to appropriate monies for Amtrak, and the best Amtrak execs can say is (A) we lost less money on F&B this year than last year and (B) we'll keep trying to reduce costs. Result--experiments like no chef here, no dining car there.

It's not logic that sets the parameters for dining on Amtrak, or customer service, or past history, or the needs of the traveling public--it's a congessional mandate that CANNOT be met. Enjoy your trip!

 

[A Voice]

As much as you want to say Amtrak cuts services and charges more, the fact is that almost everything worthwhile has a cost. Amtrak certainly has to pay any chef for a given train. If the CONO (or any other train) has a chef, someone is paying for it and I guarantee corporate isn't.

Right now Amtrak's CONO has no chef. Assume they want to have one. Who pays? Here are the options.

1) All passengers/ raise everyone's prices $X. Would that turn passengers away? Are the current prices allowing for more business than the with chef prices would?

2) All sleeper car passengers $Y (and Y is larger than X previously). How would the increase affect sales?

3) All diner car customers pay $Z more per meal. Would that affect sales? Would customers more likely choose the cafe car food if the difference in price is higher?

If Amtrak can do 1, 2, 3, or any combination and not lose money on paying the chef, I would think they would be smart enough to do so.

So, who is it you think is paying for a chef on other Amtrak long-distance trains (Meteor, Zephyr, etc.) or, indeed, on the City of New Orleans prior to this? Prices are comparable, so what's the difference?

Diners never made money. In the pre Amtrak era, it was the railroad subsidizing the loss. We all know every form of transport is subsidized, but it is a bit harder for Amtrak to justify subsidizing your steak dinner with taxpayer money. If they can cut the diner and have the cafe pay its own way they can get away from that argument. If they cannot keep up the revenue while doing so it is a downward spiral. Time will tell.

The statute authorizing Amtrak requires it to make money on food & beverage service. Apparently when Congress was authorizing Amtrak, they did indeed find it hard to justify the taxpayer subsidizing your steak dinner--hence the statute that requires Amtrak F&B to be profitable.

This has never happened in Amtrak's history. The shortfall (loss on F&B) comes up every year when Congress is asked to appropriate monies for Amtrak, and the best Amtrak execs can say is (A) we lost less money on F&B this year than last year and (B) we'll keep trying to reduce costs. Result--experiments like no chef here, no dining car there.

It's not logic that sets the parameters for dining on Amtrak, or customer service, or past history, or the needs of the traveling public--it's a congessional mandate that CANNOT be met. Enjoy your trip!

Remember that there was once also a Congressional mandate that Amtrak gradually "wean" itself from operating subsidies ("glidepath to self sufficiency" which, loosely translated, was more "freefall to bankruptcy"). Of course, that was never possible and anyone familiar with the realities of the situation knew it. That excludes most or all members of Congress, obviously, and eventually the mandate had to be repealed. Something similar will also have to happen with food service losses, because you can't run trains across the nation without serving meals and snacks but it is a necessary amenity which is never going to break even.

 

[BCL]

What would you suggest that they actually put on the menu to "be transparent"? I don't know of any restaurant (especially chain) that advertises that their entrees are made off-side and "re-heated" on-site, even on the menu.

I never said other restaurants were transparent. I said that if Amtrak wanted to be considered truly transparent they should explain which meals consisted of precooked reheated food on the menu next to those options. If Amtrak doesn't want to be truly transparent then that's fine. If I was Amtrak I'd probably want to avoid talking about the freshness and quality of the food as much as possible. People often compare Amtrak to Chili's or Applebees but in my experience Amtrak meals are much closer to the generic reheated food you find at American sports arenas.

Funny you mention sports arenas. I guess it isn't quite an arena, but Levi's Stadium is within walking distance of GAC. I've shared a table or talked to the employees (who take Amtrak) of the concessions companies, and they literally are working there a week doing food prep for a game or other event. I guess Centerplate is the big name contractor there, although even a fancy place like Bourbon Steak is doing food prep for a week before the big crowds. However, they're also open every day, so I guess the employees are doing more than food prep for an entire week.

 

[DSS&A]

I realize a lot of people on this site don't really care if the service is continually down graded, but I do. The cost of a sleeper is not any bargain for sure and the reduction in things that should be a normal part of rail long distance service have made me question if I even want to bother getting the new Amtrak Rewards card. I have several friends who used to travel by train a lot, but they too have stopped using Amtrak due to the lack of services and the higher and higher cost.

A diner never was made to be a money maker. It should be considered a part of operation of a decent service just as having the engine in place, the diner should be required as well. Where all this idea that its an expense that should be cut began lies with congress I suppose. I doubt that many of them have ever stepped foot abroad a train let along did any long distance travel. They all have superior food services in the capital especially for them and yet the public is supposed to be happy with the crumbs.

Its not a way to run a railroad that you want to build traffic on.

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

I agree with you. My family stayed at Embassy Suites in Orlando, Florida nine years ago because we are a family of six and the included "free" breakfast buffet. I am sure that the buffet losses money if looked at as a separate accounting line item, just as some congressmen want to look at Amtraks food service. However, the hotel and it's "free" breakfast buffet are still in business making a profit when one looks at the hotel's overall income. Just like Amtraks dining cars, not everyone ate at the "free" buffet every day and people don't complain.

Congress should treat Amtraks food service just like the private FOR PROFIT hotel business looks at food service. Congress many times has said that Amtrak should run more like private businesses, so it's ironic when Congress punishes Amtrak when they try to run their food service like the private hotel industry.