Is having no chef on the CONO permanent?

[BCL]

Hi,

I agree with you. My family stayed at Embassy Suites in Orlando, Florida nine years ago because we are a family of six and the included "free" breakfast buffet. I am sure that the buffet losses money if looked at as a separate accounting line item, just as some congressmen want to look at Amtraks food service. However, the hotel and it's "free" breakfast buffet are still in business making a profit when one looks at the hotel's overall income. Just like Amtraks dining cars, not everyone ate at the "free" buffet every day and people don't complain.

Congress should treat Amtraks food service just like the private FOR PROFIT hotel business looks at food service. Congress many times has said that Amtrak should run more like private businesses, so it's ironic when Congress punishes Amtrak when they try to run their food service like the private hotel industry.

At a hotel there are a lot of different services that are not separately charged: included meals, maid service, toiletries, concierge, lobby, maintenance, etc. However, it's a lot easier to attempt to quantify "profit" with a dining car where there are prices and where payment is collected. It doesn't help with the accounting when meals are included with sleepers or where the meals are included like on the Auto Train.

I'm wondering how the justification for Amtrak lounges is made. It's mostly a sleeper and loyalty club amenity. I suppose a dollar amount could be assigned to points used for ClubAcela passes. However, it's not like airline clubs where the membership fees (even via points) can be quantified.

 

[uz1]

Reading through the posts, I'm trying to understand what to expect should I board the CONO today.

1. There is no chef on all trains northbound and southbound?

2. Does no chef mean there is no dinning car?

3. Does no chef mean there is no dinning menu service?

4. Would No dinning car mean the only food option is in the national cafe car?

These might seem like basic questions but I'm not exactly sure if any of these are mutually exclusive or not.

The leading post the other week said there was no chef, but does anyone know the exact day this started?

My concern, like other posts is that there doesn't seem to be any information out there discussing this. For example,

1. The Silver Star doesn't have the dinning menu online, but the city of new orleans still shows the dining car menu.

Granted, as other posts say the menus are old and new menus are in effect, but still I'd think this is a significant event where more disclosure should be happening.

2. Would AGR or Amtrak reps know about this?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The CONO still has a dining car which will serve the passengers.

The Silver Star is in a trial period, till Feb, running without a dining car.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The City still has its Diner ( Cross Country Cafe,half Diner/half Lounge) but No Chef aboard.

The food is from a Very Limited Limited Menu ( Dinner, Breakfast and Lunch on #59 CHI-NOL/Dinner and Breakfast on #58 NOL-CHI)and is Heat and Eat from a Convection Oven just like on the Cardinal.

 

[AmtrakLKL]

Like the Silver Star's "experiment", the CONO's Bistro Dining Service with pre-prepared food has been extended through April 30, 2016.

 

[Train2104]

Like the Silver Star's "experiment", the CONO's Bistro Dining Service with pre-prepared food has been extended through April 30, 2016.

That's new...and explains the lack of sleeper availability during the interim period.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

As much as you want to say Amtrak cuts services and charges more, the fact is that almost everything worthwhile has a cost. Amtrak certainly has to pay any chef for a given train. If the CONO (or any other train) has a chef, someone is paying for it and I guarantee corporate isn't.

Right now Amtrak's CONO has no chef. Assume they want to have one. Who pays? Here are the options.

1) All passengers/ raise everyone's prices $X. Would that turn passengers away? Are the current prices allowing for more business than the with chef prices would?

2) All sleeper car passengers $Y (and Y is larger than X previously). How would the increase affect sales?

3) All diner car customers pay $Z more per meal. Would that affect sales? Would customers more likely choose the cafe car food if the difference in price is higher?

If Amtrak can do 1, 2, 3, or any combination and not lose money on paying the chef, I would think they would be smart enough to do so.

So, who is it you think is paying for a chef on other Amtrak long-distance trains (Meteor, Zephyr, etc.) or, indeed, on the City of New Orleans prior to this? Prices are comparable, so what's the difference?

I doubt they are related but the CONO usually has one of the best on time performance among LD trains.

 

[niemi24s]

Like the Silver Star's "experiment", the CONO's Bistro Dining Service with pre-prepared food has been extended through April 30, 2016.

That's new...and explains the lack of sleeper availability during the interim period.

No sleepers on the CONO? When?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Like the Silver Star's "experiment", the CONO's Bistro Dining Service with pre-prepared food has been extended through April 30, 2016.

That's new...and explains the lack of sleeper availability during the interim period.

No sleepers on the CONO? When?

See post #20 here: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/65870-silver-star-has-a-new-cafe-menu/

 

[Bob Dylan]

Like the Silver Star's "experiment", the CONO's Bistro Dining Service with pre-prepared food has been extended through April 30, 2016.

More " New Speak" aka Marketing BS! The Europeans laugh at using "Bistro" to describe Food Service on Amtrak! As greatcats said, dog food by another other name is still dog food!

How much have the CONO Sleeping Car Fares been lowered? (this used to be the Best Sleeper deal @ Amtrak, along with the Crescent from NOL-ATL, when the food service was still Excellent!)

And it's not the same as the Star "experiment" since there is no shortage of CCCs or Superliner Diners!

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

The "no sleeper" comment applies only to the Silver Star. I am booked on the CONO three times between January and April 20 at the lowest bedroom cost with no consideration of the "meal service".

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I just rode the City of New Orleans this week, and I was quite curious to see the new Dining Car service, and seeing as I was transferring from the zephyr, I could directly compare the food. (For the Record, I was consistently pleased with my food on the Zephyr).

As a recap - the Cross Country Cafe Car (aka Diner Lounge) is the only car offering any food service on the train. It is now staffed by one Lounge Attendant, who works the Cafe counter, and 1 Diner Attendant who takes care of the dining car. The crew was excellent, and the Cafe Attendant helped with seating and drinks when he didn't have a line. Almost every table was filled for Dinner out of Chicago.

No table cloths but there were Amtrak Placemats, cloth napkins, and silverware.

The menu itself has a decent variety, the salad, rolls, and desserts are the same as other Amtrak trains.

For Dinner I ordered the pasta. It was..... edible? It looked like spaghetti and tomato sauce straight from a can with a spoonful of ricotta cheese to make it look fresh. It tasted... like spaghetti and tomato sauce from a can with a spoonful of ricotta. The other dishes I saw didn't look too much better. The portions were also pretty small.

Another nice nod to the staff, they plated the food quite nicely, even adding a fresh strawberry on top of the desserts.

For Breakfast I ordered the "Breakfast Blitz with French Toast" - It was much better than my dinner, both in taste, and appearance.

The "Blitz" is basically a crepe filled with cream cheese, and the French Toast is more like French Toast Sticks. But it was served with a nice fruit compote that complimented both nicely, and the chicken sausage was good as well. Breakfast was really pretty decent... the portion size was again small, but I could live with the breakfast choices.

My opinions on the "test"?

The City of New Orleans is a light train and doesn't serve too many full meals. Northbound is one dinner and a quick Breakfast. Southbound is a quick dinner, Full Breakfast (but with many passengers getting off in Memphis before Breakfast starts), and a quick Lunch. It makes sense to try things out on this train.

What works? There is really no need for the Diner LSA. Many LSA's in Dining Cars really don't do much to help out, they just make bossy announcements and then make change. Despite the Diner being almost full, the one waitress kept up with the tables very well.

What doesn't work? The actual food. There either needs to be higher quality pre-plated food, or return an onboard cook.

The Breakfast was passable, but the dinner entree's are just not good.

 

[nshvlcat]

The "no sleeper" comment applies only to the Silver Star. I am booked on the CONO three times between January and April 20 at the lowest bedroom cost with no consideration of the "meal service".

I am curious. Being from Franklin, do you board the CONO in Memphis?

 

[yarrow]

I just rode the City of New Orleans this week, and I was quite curious to see the new Dining Car service, and seeing as I was transferring from the zephyr, I could directly compare the food. (For the Record, I was consistently pleased with my food on the Zephyr).

As a recap - the Cross Country Cafe Car (aka Diner Lounge) is the only car offering any food service on the train. It is now staffed by one Lounge Attendant, who works the Cafe counter, and 1 Diner Attendant who takes care of the dining car. The crew was excellent, and the Cafe Attendant helped with seating and drinks when he didn't have a line. Almost every table was filled for Dinner out of Chicago.

No table cloths but there were Amtrak Placemats, cloth napkins, and silverware.

The menu itself has a decent variety, the salad, rolls, and desserts are the same as other Amtrak trains.

For Dinner I ordered the pasta. It was..... edible? It looked like spaghetti and tomato sauce straight from a can with a spoonful of ricotta cheese to make it look fresh. It tasted... like spaghetti and tomato sauce from a can with a spoonful of ricotta. The other dishes I saw didn't look too much better. The portions were also pretty small.

Another nice nod to the staff, they plated the food quite nicely, even adding a fresh strawberry on top of the desserts.

For Breakfast I ordered the "Breakfast Blitz with French Toast" - It was much better than my dinner, both in taste, and appearance.

The "Blitz" is basically a crepe filled with cream cheese, and the French Toast is more like French Toast Sticks. But it was served with a nice fruit compote that complimented both nicely, and the chicken sausage was good as well. Breakfast was really pretty decent... the portion size was again small, but I could live with the breakfast choices.

My opinions on the "test"?

The City of New Orleans is a light train and doesn't serve too many full meals. Northbound is one dinner and a quick Breakfast. Southbound is a quick dinner, Full Breakfast (but with many passengers getting off in Memphis before Breakfast starts), and a quick Lunch. It makes sense to try things out on this train.

What works? There is really no need for the Diner LSA. Many LSA's in Dining Cars really don't do much to help out, they just make bossy announcements and then make change. Despite the Diner being almost full, the one waitress kept up with the tables very well.

What doesn't work? The actual food. There either needs to be higher quality pre-plated food, or return an onboard cook.

The Breakfast was passable, but the dinner entree's are just not good.

minor correction. i don't believe, for some inexplicable reason, that ice cream is available as a dessert option on the cono. at least it wasn't last month when i rode

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Nshvicat, no I have never boarded the CONO in Memphis. I grew up in north Louisiana in the 1950-60's and moved to Nashville in 1966 so I often begin a lot of my Amtrak adventures in New Orleans. I usually fly Southwest or American to my beginning point so I have begun my trips in New Orleans, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Late May 2016 I will fly to Toronto to begin a trip to East Canada from Toronto to Halifax and return. Check out my Rail Trip photo galleries and my travel blog for photos and trip reports.

 

[George K]

In another thread (http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/66182-noisy-neighbors/) Bob Dylan asked:

How was the food in the "Chefless CCC" and the stay in one of America's great places to visit?

1) The food was remarkably unremarkable. On our way down to NOLA, Mrs. George had the beef tips, accompanied by a salad and pudding for dessert. She said it was tasty, but it looked like something that came out of a Campbell's can with a bit of veggies thrown in.

I think what she had was moderated by what you see in the background:

I had the chicken and sausage jambalaya. It was tasty, with just a bit of a "kick" to the sausage. The broccoli, however, just looked sad:

I had what they call "strawberry cheesecake" for dessert and it was an abomination. When I order cheesecake, I expect, well, CHEESECAKE, not some colored concoction that's a bit red with a strawberry on top. I mean, c'mon, guys.

I missed my steak - a lot.

The staff was clearly overworked, and our SCA ("Albert") was helping seat people, clean off tables, etc. They were frantic.

When I get unpacked, I'm mailing a letter to Customer Relations (no, no phone call, no email - I'm typing a letter on paper, putting it in an envelope with a stamp on it, and MAILING it) describing our frustrations.

I know this isn't the "Travelogue Thread," so, when I get back, I'll post about New Orleans.

 

[yarrow]

In another thread (http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/66182-noisy-neighbors/) Bob Dylan asked:

How was the food in the "Chefless CCC" and the stay in one of America's great places to visit?

1) The food was remarkably unremarkable. On our way down to NOLA, Mrs. George had the beef tips, accompanied by a salad and pudding for dessert. She said it was tasty, but it looked like something that came out of a Campbell's can with a bit of veggies thrown in.

I think what she had was moderated by what you see in the background:

I had the chicken and sausage jambalaya. It was tasty, with just a bit of a "kick" to the sausage. The broccoli, however, just looked sad:

I had what they call "strawberry cheesecake" for dessert and it was an abomination. When I order cheesecake, I expect, well, CHEESECAKE, not some colored concoction that's a bit red with a strawberry on top. I mean, c'mon, guys.

I missed my steak - a lot.

The staff was clearly overworked, and our SCA ("Albert") was helping seat people, clean off tables, etc. They were frantic.

When I get unpacked, I'm mailing a letter to Customer Relations (no, no phone call, no email - I'm typing a letter on paper, putting it in an envelope with a stamp on it, and MAILING it) describing our frustrations.

I know this isn't the "Travelogue Thread," so, when I get back, I'll post about New Orleans.

let 'em have it with both barrels, george. and good luck

 

[George K]

I've read, somewhere, that companies pay more, a LOT more, attention to those who take the time to put pen to paper (figuratively speaking, of course). It's worth the price of a stamp to give them a piece...

That said, the LSA (is that what you'd call him/her now?) told me that this is an experiment, and Amtrak has had an earful of the dreadful service wrt the dining experience. She said (and this is rumor), that this will end in January.

 

[Palmland]

Just got off the CONO. The CCC car worked well for the passenger load. We ate in Chicago since we wanted a good restaurant and don't like eating at 8pm- much better to sit in the lounge and enjoy the lights of the city when leaving. Good service by the LSA and his helper for breakfast and lunch. When not needed for meals, the helper worked the cafe side of the CCC. After 3 days on the train, we didn't want another heavy, bland, mediocre meal and the continental breakfast and chicken salad lunch was just right. Only downside: extremely rough CN track - far worse than KS on the SWC

 

[greatcats]

George K- This is my comment: BARF!!!!

 

[rrdude]

I'd like to see, JUST ONCE, Amtrak "experiment" in the OTHER direction. That is, Charge a little premium, or a lot, and provide Pax with all, well, at least "many" of the amenities that they once had. Fresh cooked food, china, linen, chocolates at turn-down, yada, yada, yada. It's hard to believe, that with almost 100% of the passengers pre-reserved, they couldn't pull a staffer from the extra board to accommodate this. Of course the china, linen, etc, would have to limited to one train, but I'd love to read the reviews THOSE pax might write......... SHM

 

[yarrow]

I'd like to see, JUST ONCE, Amtrak "experiment" in the OTHER direction. That is, Charge a little premium, or a lot, and provide Pax with all, well, at least "many" of the amenities that they once had. Fresh cooked food, china, linen, chocolates at turn-down, yada, yada, yada. It's hard to believe, that with almost 100% of the passengers pre-reserved, they couldn't pull a staffer from the extra board to accommodate this. Of course the china, linen, etc, would have to limited to one train, but I'd love to read the reviews THOSE pax might write......... SHM

they did a few years ago with the aborted program of reintroducing the ld trains. they did the cs and eb that i experienced(i think they did a train in the east too). an attempt at regional menus(remember the bison meatloaf on the eb?). a lot of little on-board items that said eb or cs. very nice dining experiences with china and tablecloths. a long, long way from what is now offered on the cono

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Considering both of the pictured meals are some kind of Stew, they don't really look that bad (though I'd replace the Rice with Mashed). Add in some quality Hot Sauce (I like Trinidad Scorpion, and Frank's is really good if you do not want much Heat) and that will help take off any nasty edge they may have had.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Just got off the CONO. The CCC car worked well for the passenger load. We ate in Chicago since we wanted a good restaurant...

Eating before departure and again on arrival works great for a city like Chicago. Unfortunately it doesn't work as well for a city like San Antonio. Down here in ride over country every train arrives after 90% of local restaurants have closed and departs before 90% of restaurants have opened. Then again these days even a bad Denny's does a better job of making food than Amtrak's ever worsening commissary chow.

I'd like to see, JUST ONCE, Amtrak "experiment" in the OTHER direction. That is, Charge a little premium, or a lot, and provide Pax with all, well, at least "many" of the amenities that they once had. Fresh cooked food, china, linen, chocolates at turn-down, yada, yada, yada. It's hard to believe, that with almost 100% of the passengers pre-reserved, they couldn't pull a staffer from the extra board to accommodate this. Of course the china, linen, etc, would have to limited to one train, but I'd love to read the reviews THOSE pax might write......... SHM

I hear what you're saying, but Amtrak is already charging first class airfare prices for a 1970's fiberglass shower and Murphy bed on wheels. How much more do you think they can reasonably expect people to actually pay before they balk and take their business elsewhere?

 

[A Voice]

I'd like to see, JUST ONCE, Amtrak "experiment" in the OTHER direction. That is, Charge a little premium, or a lot, and provide Pax with all, well, at least "many" of the amenities that they once had. Fresh cooked food, china, linen, chocolates at turn-down, yada, yada, yada. It's hard to believe, that with almost 100% of the passengers pre-reserved, they couldn't pull a staffer from the extra board to accommodate this. Of course the china, linen, etc, would have to limited to one train, but I'd love to read the reviews THOSE pax might write......... SHM

I hear what you're saying, but Amtrak is already charging first class airfare prices for a 1970's fiberglass shower and Murphy bed on wheels. How much more do you think they can reasonably expect people to actually pay before they balk and take their business elsewhere?

Well, that's literally why you experiment, testing new amenities and passenger services before abandoning the failures and rolling out the successes nationwide. There clearly is a market for upscale and even premium passenger rail service; What needs to be determined is what level of price and amenities the market will indeed support. You shouldn't only 'test', perhaps due to political pressure, just to see what you can cut and get away with, but rather also what you can offer and improve the financial result.