"Lock The Door When You Go Out!"

[alanh]

The train environment is brutal on anything with moving parts. I'd give a household $100 lock a week before it broke. A hotel-grade lock would be better, but I'd bet the innards would shake apart after a few months.

Note that all the old built-in door latches have been replaced, as simple as they were.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Add me to the list of folks who would like a door you can at least CLOSE from the outside, let alone lock. Needless to say we're obviously in the minority here. Most of what you'll get on AU are people asking why five dollar duct tape isn't a good enough lock for your thousand dollar train journey. All I know is that the next time you pass by an open compartment feel free to take all you want. Everyone is so convinced it never happens that you'll probably be long gone and home free before they're ever able to figure out where their stuff went.

 

[Ryan]

Out of 27 posts, you're the only one that's brought up duct tape, so your claim that that is "Most of what you get on AU" is demonstrably false.

My personal experience of closing door from the outside proves your claim that the doors can't close false as well.

Have you ever been on a train, or do you just take other people's complaints and blindly parrot them as gospel?

 

[haolerider]

Add me to the list of folks who would like a door you can at least CLOSE from the outside, let alone lock. Needless to say we're obviously in the minority here. Most of what you'll get on AU are people asking why five dollar duct tape isn't a good enough lock for your thousand dollar train journey. All I know is that the next time you pass by an open compartment feel free to take all you want. Everyone is so convinced it never happens that you'll probably be long gone and home free before they're ever able to figure out where their stuff went.

I am curious as to why you even continue to read/post on this site, since you seem to find fault with most forum members and come up with some of the most illogical comments. You might be happier on a site of your own design. Then you can agree with yourself!

 

[PerRock]

After reading thru the first few posts here, and feeling to lazy to read the rest...

what if one's key car were ones Ticket; those have magnetic strips on them (or can easily) get a simple swipe-thru reader and give the SCA & Conductors a master key. The SCA is supposed to clean the room between pax I do believe he could probably bunch a button or two that would disable the exiting pax's code and the next's active.

peter

 

[dlagrua]

Theft in the sleepers is a non-issue. They keep the coach passengers out. Say someone steals your laptop. It would have to be another sleeper passenger. They take a big chance on leaving the sleeper car without anyone noticing it. We've gone to dinner with our room door open and our laptop on the table and it vwas still there when we got back. Not saying 100% of the people are honest but the majority are. In the sleepers you tend to get more of the "upper crust" of society and very few lowlifes.

 

[sunchaser]

We haven't had any issues with security of valuables on the train. Even when we have forgotten to cover them up, everything has been left alone. You could always put your items away in your bag & lock it. When we were on the CS last year, someone left their cell phone in the PPC. Someone else found it & gave it to the Attendant who did an announcement, & it was returned to the owner.

If Amtrak was install electronic locks, would they work without power? Who/where would they put all those extra keys that would be needed in case someone 'loses' their key? In the SCA's roomette? Or make the Conductor tend them?

 

[nferr]

It would be a huge hassle to have locks with the quick turnover of passengers in sleepers. I don't know how often things get stolen but I've traveled many nights in sleepers and have never heard of anything taken from a sleeper.

I just shut the door and curtain when leaving the room and don't leave anything expensive out in plain sight, although I've seen many rooms with laptops, scanners, cameras, etc left out in the open. The attendant would have to have a master key anyway in order to get in the rooms. So now I could see anybody who lost something on their own blaming the attendant for stealing everytime they think something is missing.

 

[PRR 60]

I just stash my laptop out of sight, close the curtains (thanks to that modern miracle, Velcro), and then close the door. Given that set-up, someone walking by really cannot tell if you are taking a nap or out of the room. That is, of course, until the door slides open on its own. That was my experience on the EB this summer. Maybe I should have left the door open? Perhaps it would have closed on its own while I was out. Bottom line is that I had no problems, and I really was not too worried about it.

I also do not make the presumption that sleeper passengers are honest and coach passengers are not. I'm an equal opportunity person. I trust no one. Besides, I ride sleeper. To paraphrase Groucho Marx (everyone under 50, pull-up Google), I do not trust any group that has me as a member.

 

[the_traveler]

To paraphrase Groucho Marx (everyone under 50, pull-up Google), I do not trust any group that has me as a member.

I resemble that remark!

I'm 49, and know who he is. ("The magic word is ...")

I don't even trust myself!

Sometimes I even (although it may seem anti-social) close the door and curtains when I'm INSIDE the room! Thus, if someone did in fact want to steal something (which I really doubt), even if they see my door closed, they don't know if I'm in the room or not! When I do leave. many times I just messily cover thing with like a coat or pillow. Unless someone really intends to steal something, I find this is enough!

(Do you really think a locked door on your house or car would really stop a determined thief?

)

I really think most people in a sleeper are honest!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Allow me to scare the socks off of you. I used to pick locks as a hobby, and attempted to sell better security locks to people. I have never come to a residential door lock I could not have open in under 60 seconds. I have only come across two that took me more than 30 seconds. Most can be opened within ten seconds using a device known as an electronic pick gun. Far too many can be open in seconds using an ordinary flathead screwdriver (they lack deadbolts, especially at rear entrances!).

Those hotel doors? They are keyed to open using master keys. Scary fact? The company that makes most hotel door key system only uses 6 different master codes, and they make a card for internal use that opens all of them. More than a few crooks have copies, as do many police departments.

Other than using a disc-tumbler (Abloy) lock, locks generally produce security only from those who would steal opportunistically. The security they provide from anything but roving kids is an illusion. If any of you care to send me a train ticket to your door, I will be happy to demonstrate just how pathetic the lock you are currently using is. I will open it, re-lock it, leave no trace of doing it, and be done in under two minutes.

One walking through a train car and not seeing anything valuable is not going to risk being caught to look around for same. The dedicated thief or person out to get you will not be foiled by any system Amtrak would put into their trains. Placing such security systems would be silly and cost a fortune.

 

[rrdude]

Dax, KEEP POSTING HERE! I for one enjoy the alternate view, the realist view, the pessimist view, just all the DIFFERENT views.

You have as much right to post here as any other foamer / fan / enthusiast / or advocate.

Disregard the BS when OP say "...get your own site, yada, yada, yada....."

I certainly don't agree with everything you post, but I enjoy reading it.

It's so childish when OP don't like what you write, or whatever, and then go on the "attack". Consider the source.

Arguments are what make this forum interesting. And when you want to know whooz right, just ask me, I'll tell ya!

 

[LA Resident]

Allow me to scare the socks off of you. I used to pick locks as a hobby, and attempted to sell better security locks to people. I have never come to a residential door lock I could not have open in under 60 seconds. I have only come across two that took me more than 30 seconds. Most can be opened within ten seconds using a device known as an electronic pick gun. Far too many can be open in seconds using an ordinary flathead screwdriver (they lack deadbolts, especially at rear entrances!).

Those hotel doors? They are keyed to open using master keys. Scary fact? The company that makes most hotel door key system only uses 6 different master codes, and they make a card for internal use that opens all of them. More than a few crooks have copies, as do many police departments.

Other than using a disc-tumbler (Abloy) lock, locks generally produce security only from those who would steal opportunistically. The security they provide from anything but roving kids is an illusion. If any of you care to send me a train ticket to your door, I will be happy to demonstrate just how pathetic the lock you are currently using is. I will open it, re-lock it, leave no trace of doing it, and be done in under two minutes.

One walking through a train car and not seeing anything valuable is not going to risk being caught to look around for same. The dedicated thief or person out to get you will not be foiled by any system Amtrak would put into their trains. Placing such security systems would be silly and cost a fortune.

So you're the guy who picked the lock in the PPC car and enjoyed the extra Champagne and cider??? :lol:

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Out of 27 posts, you're the only one that's brought up duct tape, so your claim that that is "Most of what you get on AU" is demonstrably false.

I think you're taking my post a little too seriously there Ryan. But thanks for playing and better luck next time.

My personal experience of closing door from the outside proves your claim that the doors can't close false as well.

Really? How did you manage to close it so it wouldn't just open up again? I can't seem to figure it out.

I am curious as to why you even continue to read/post on this site, since you seem to find fault with most forum members and come up with some of the most illogical comments.

See my reply to Ryan.

If Amtrak was install electronic locks, would they work without power?

Good point. I guess they could run off battery power, but it certainly complicates the solution I had in mind.

Dax, KEEP POSTING HERE! I for one enjoy the alternate view, the realist view, the pessimist view, just all the DIFFERENT views.

You got it rrdude, and thanks for the inclusive attitude. I agree that this place could benefit from some less apologetic voices.

 

[caravanman]

Hi,

Given that Frugalist stated that he was happy to state his views and leave it at that, in post 9... and we are now on post 40 ish, I guess we can now stop giving him our opinions!

My view is that the money would be wiser spent on a system to better regulate train temperatures, and then to stop the dinning car equipment breaking down, or running out of options on day 1!

Ed

 

[Ana]

A lock would be nice but it doesn't bother me. I think it's way more trouble than benefit. Besides, I've worked in hotels and don't trust the locks at all. So many people have master keys! At my hotel, my swipe card was a master key that opened all guest rooms, even though I worked in personnel and had no reason ever to go in a guest room. I was terrified of what could happen if I lost it. Locks make people feel safe, when maybe they shouldn't. In hotel rooms, I keep the latch that hooks across the door on when I'm asleep. You can be quite isolated if there aren't many rooms occupied (and a person could enter very quietly if they had a master key). I don't worry about that on Amtrak sleeper - it's a closed environment and there are other people very close by if I have to scream

As far as valuables go, I carry them all with me, all the time. I think I'm an open, friendly person generally but when I'm far from home I put care for my passport, wallet, phone and laptop above complete faith in human nature. Losing a passport and wallet would be a nightmare, and I really don't want to lose my phone or laptop either. They all fit in my little day pack and I just take them with me everywhere, so no stress. Same as I wouldn't leave them for the day in a hotel room either. I purposely got a netbook (teeny laptop) for travel since it'd be a pain with a big laptop.

Anyway, just how I deal with it as a solo female traveler.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

I have a 6 foot locking laptop cable i take with me and lock my laptop up with that. I tie it to the table in the hotel or the seat back table when I'm in coach on the train.

 

[CHANGEATJAMAICA]

If exterior door locks on sleepers were a "problem", some enterprising inventor,handyman, whatever would fabricate and market (probably on tv for $19.95 plus s&h, a second one free pay only the s&h) a portable lock that could be used by the individual traveler on any roomette, room on sleepers.

Howsomever, since no panacea of privacy has been produced; QED there "ain't" no problem.

Best regards,

Rodger...who had the same question before our first sleeper trip and haven't been bothered in dozens of trips taken.

 

[frugalist]

I'm enjoying most of the comments in this thread. There have been some useful comments that I will consider for future trips. I particularly like the idea of the locking laptop cable. There have also been some thinly veiled ad hominem comments. I regret that I responded to one with my own ad hominem attack (not so thinly veiled). I apologize to the group for that comment. You'd think after all these years on the internet, I would learn to sleep on it before responding to a comment that is intended to provoke exactly the response I made.

I think the comments that a solution would be too expensive, or that the money would be better spent elsewhere, are irrelevant in this thread. I acknowledge in my original post that Amtrak doesn't have the money to re-fit every sleeper in the fleet with whatever solution is deemed appropriate. My question was what other obstacles (besides money) would prevent an adequate solution? A good point was brought up about the locks possibly not working if the power went out. About the question of storage of keys: is storage room so tight that there would be no room for the conductor to store a small case containing the keys in an area where he keeps other supplies and equipment?

While suggestions like "put all valuables out of sight and close the curtain and the door" are valid, I did mention in my original post that's exactly what I did on my trip last month. So while that's certainly good advice, it's really nothing new.

There is no such thing as absolute security. I know that! But how feasible is it technically and mechanically (forget the money for now) to provide a bit more security in the sleepers than we have now? That was the question I was hoping we could address in this thread. Can they at least design doors that will not slide open while we're out?

And it's not just the upper crust riding in the sleepers. I rode in sleepers last month, and I'm far from upper crust! If it weren't for all the bonus points from credit card and checking account promotions that I transferred to my AGR account, I probably would've just driven. No way could I afford a sleeper. Besides, honesty is not class-based.

 

[Nickrapak]

Electronic swipe systems are useless. In many cases, all you need is an Allen wrench and a thin screwdriver to open them. The only reason these locks are on hotel room doors is to provide a false sense of security, not to mention the various times keys seem to deprogram themselves. I don't really think locks are needed, but if Amtrak were to put locks in the doors, it would be much easier (and more secure) to use a standard pin tumbler system. The keys are easier to keep track of, harder to duplicate on-train, and the mechanism is smaller.

 

[MrFSS]

Maybe we need an answer to this question. Pre-Amtrak did any of the US passenger train sleeping cars have door locks?

 

[TVRM610]

I think the comments that a solution would be too expensive, or that the money would be better spent elsewhere, are irrelevant in this thread. I acknowledge in my original post that Amtrak doesn't have the money to re-fit every sleeper in the fleet with whatever solution is deemed appropriate. My question was what other obstacles (besides money) would prevent an adequate solution? A good point was brought up about the locks possibly not working if the power went out. About the question of storage of keys: is storage room so tight that there would be no room for the conductor to store a small case containing the keys in an area where he keeps other supplies and equipment?

There is no such thing as absolute security. I know that! But how feasible is it technically and mechanically (forget the money for now) to provide a bit more security in the sleepers than we have now? That was the question I was hoping we could address in this thread. Can they at least design doors that will not slide open while we're out?

And it's not just the upper crust riding in the sleepers. I rode in sleepers last month, and I'm far from upper crust! If it weren't for all the bonus points from credit card and checking account promotions that I transferred to my AGR account, I probably would've just driven. No way could I afford a sleeper. Besides, honesty is not class-based.

The power is a major factor, especially since you would need a system that can properly reset itself when power is restored. etc. As for storage, there is room for keys, that's not a factor at all. There are storage closets on board, and obviously the SCA would tend to the keys.

There are systems in place on other trains so perhaps Amtrak could purchase one like that. I think in reality the biggest fear that most of us on this board have is Amtrak can't keep doors in general in working order, so how is an electronic key system gonna stand a chance? TV's in the Viewliner were taken out, some say liscensing fees, some say maintenance, some say SCA's never bothered to get them going sometimes. Whatever the reason, TV's are too big of a hassle for amtrak in sleepers, so it's hard to realistically imagine it.

As for the upper crust comment.. AMEN. I'm certainly not one who believes sleeper car passengers are beyond theft. I'm pretty sure it has happened before. However... It probably only happens when valuables are left unattended in plain site, and even then the odds of it happening are quite low.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Maybe we need an answer to this question. Pre-Amtrak did any of the US passenger train sleeping cars have door locks?

Wow, I was planning on posting that exact question when I finished reading the whole thread. Sleeping cars have been around for 100+ years in various forms, if locks were needed they'd already be there.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Can they at least design doors that will not slide open while we're out?

Nothing I've seen or heard or read explains this part and it's one of the more perplexing design flaws I've ever come across.

Maybe we need an answer to this question. Pre-Amtrak did any of the US passenger train sleeping cars have door locks?

Why limit our research to the distant past of one single country? I'd be more curious to find out what overnight sleeper trains currently have in Europe and Asia than what American trains had decades ago. In my experience the foreign trains were all so fast they didn't require any sleeper compartments, but I understand there are some modern overnight sleeper trains in countries like Japan and Russia. I just don't know how the compartments work since I never took them.

 

[the_traveler]

And it's not just the upper crust riding in the sleepers. I rode in sleepers last month, and I'm far from upper crust!

Being from Florida, and with all the humidity, you're must be a soggy crust!

But I do agree, sleepers are not only for "the upper crust". Even "regular"

people ride in sleepers!