"Lock The Door When You Go Out!"

[Cristobal]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread or not but another way to improve your "security" while in a sleeper is by limiting the amount of traffic past your room by choosing your location. I'll be in room 13, car 1432 in a few weeks time and I'll pretty much guarantee that I'll see much less foot traffic than I will on my return trip in room 5, car 1130.

I certainly didn't plan it that way. However, for the extra-paranoid, calling :help: and requesting a room at the far end of the sleepers (and downstairs if on a Superliner) would certainly reduce the number of passers-by (and possible sticky-fingered fellow pax ).

BTW, I'm far from being a veteran Amtrak traveler but I do have a few LD trips under my belt and I have never felt the need for anything more than "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" measures for things like a laptop.

 

[dgatwood]

I'm not sure what to say to this. Perhaps the SCA didn't bother explaining the mechanism clearly. Or maybe these people simply weren't sharp enough to understand what they were told. In any case I don't think we should waste time trying to design our trains to be idiot proof. If the ADA room needs to remain unlocked so be it, but I believe the rest of the rooms would benefit from a higher standard than we currently accept. Doors that shut properly from outside would be a great start. Doors that can be locked from the outside would be a great feature for new car deliveries. In order to address the issue of passengers who are unable to understand or use the locking mechanism Amtrak could make it an option to be enabled or disabled. Those who don't want it or can't understand it can leave their doors unlocked and the rest of us can receive the (real or false) peace of mind we get from knowing someone needs more than a spare second and a flick of an empty hand to access our compartment.

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I saw this and thought of a latch that would be nearly idiot-proof and could provide security, too. Normally, when you open a sliding door, you grab a handle (usually an indentation in the door) and pull it sideways. So make that entire handle operate the latch. That way, the natural action one would take when sliding the door open would also unlatch the latch, allowing it to open.

The handle would be a floating plate outside the door (with appropriate tracks on the top and bottom). Internally, that plate would be attached to a bar with teeth on one side (and guides) that rotates a gear. The other side of the gear would be welded to a hook that swings down and hooks into a slot in the doorway (like a sliding bathroom door lock). Solving the problem of the catch bending the door plate is largely left as an exercise for the reader, but would probably involve using a thick, wedge-shaped piece of metal made out of something harder than brass (and leaving a lot of play while the door is closed so that it still works even if it bends in spite of your efforts).

With such a design, you could also easily add an electronic locking mechanism to it. Upon entering the right code or swiping a card or whatever, the lock could just charge an electromagnet to lift the latch bar instead of lifting a lock pin or rotating something inside a traditional lock. It shouldn't be very hard to modify existing mechanisms to do that, I wouldn't think.

My guess? Probably about $15 apiece if you outsource manufacturing to China. I'd expect the labor for installing them to greatly exceed the manufacturing costs....

 

[Spokker]

It would probably cost less to replace everything that has been stolen from sleepers than retrofit the entire fleet with locks.

 

[zephyr17]

I know from reading this forum for the past 8 months that many members feel that Amtrak can do no wrong. That all they need is more equipment so they can have more frequent service on LD routes and everything will be perfect. I've said my peace on this issue, so let's just agree to disagree. When I take my laptop with me on my next LD trip, I will take it with me in my backpack when I go to the diner or the lounge. Am I paranoid? I'm not a psychologist, so I'll let you draw your own conclusion.

I haven't had occasion to stay in a hotel since I got my laptop, but I wouldn't leave my laptop in my hotel room either.

If you are that concerned, fly. I know of no initiative to change it, the number of incidents are dimishingly small or there would be more of drive to change it.

 

[Tumbleweed]

OK,let's apply the KISS principle here......why not just install a hasp of sorts on the door, or maybe an interior storage space, and people could choose to carry a small padlock to secure same.....

 

[rrdude]

OK,let's apply the KISS principle here......why not just install a hasp of sorts on the door, or maybe an interior storage space, and people could choose to carry a small padlock to secure same.....

And invariably on the first day the hasps are installed, someone, across the Amtrak network of travelers, would say, "Oh crap, I left the key INSIDE the room,...Mr. Amtrak SCA, it's now YOUR responsibility to get that darn door open......" resulting in damage to the door, as they use the emergency axe to get in.........

Have I become jaded or what?

 

[the_traveler]

I'm much more concerned about theft of things from my car parked at the mall than from theft from something from my room on a train!

Hey - why not require every mall or shopping center in the country to install a secure lock for every car that parks in their parking lot?

 

[the_traveler]

We will be 'at risk' from those terrible MSP coach people (criminals one and all, I once lived there ) for a maximum of 9 hours.

Those MSP people are the WORST! You just can't trust them!

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

on my trip out to home I had . close to $10000 of gear on me.I just hide it under the bed.. or seat. ii never leave my coach stuff alone at stops ... and I check my stuff for disturbinces..peter

 

[the_traveler]

on my trip out to home I had . close to $10000 of gear on me.

When's your next trip?

Hey - I'm on that train too!

 

[Ryan]

OK,let's apply the KISS principle here......why not just install a hasp of sorts on the door, or maybe an interior storage space, and people could choose to carry a small padlock to secure same.....

And invariably on the first day the hasps are installed, someone, across the Amtrak network of travelers, would say, "Oh crap, I left the key INSIDE the room,...Mr. Amtrak SCA, it's now YOUR responsibility to get that darn door open......" resulting in damage to the door, as they use the emergency axe to get in.........

Have I become jaded or what?

Between that and access to the room in the event of an emergency, etc, etc... Lots of reason why that's no good on the door at least.

Not a lot of space on the inside for a locking interior compartment, but I guess that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Still looks like a solution looking for a problem to me...

 

[jis]

OK,let's apply the KISS principle here......why not just install a hasp of sorts on the door, or maybe an interior storage space, and people could choose to carry a small padlock to secure same.....

Everyone already has an internal storage space. It is called their suitcase or rollaboard or whatever. All that one needs to do is take along a bike chain and secure it to some point inside the compartment and lock the darned bag. Why is this so complicated? Even the villagers in India have figured this much out and it is common practice to just chain secure locked trunks and what nots to the seat/berth in those 2nd Class 3 Tier Sleepers, overflowing with people some of whom are much more likely to decamp with something than anyone in the outright luxurious sleepers in the US that costs an arm and a leg to get into. Why is it that the level of common sense seems to be inversely proportional to the amount of luxury that people can afford?

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I've never had a problem with stuff "growing legs" when I travel in a room. That said, there are certain precautions I take:

First, I travel light. For example, my camara is a nice, but small, digital. I try to not bring things I can live without. If I must bring a computer it is 'travel friendly' in that it is compact and not my good one.

Second, I bring a daypack with me, which I never let out of my sight, and in which I put anything I would really hate to lose. I know some people can't be bothered, but I would not totally trust a locked door anyway.

Third, I don't flaunt what I do bring, and I dress in a manner which does not scream MONEY!

Fourth, 'nicer' things that I do keep in my room, when I'm not in it, are out of sight, locked in my small 'in room' suitcase, which I put either in the Superliner closet or in the overhead storage space in the Viewliner.

While I appreciate the desire to be able to lock the room from outside - I've had it myself - the reality is that Amtrak is not going to install locks any time in the near future. Some sort of low tech solution will create more problems than it would solve and a high tech solution is just going to cost too much money. That is the reality. One has no choice but to deal with it.

 

[Greg]

To paraphrase Groucho Marx (everyone under 50, pull-up Google), I do not trust any group that has me as a member.

I resemble that remark!

I'm 49, and know who he is. ("The magic word is ...")

I don't even trust myself!

Sometimes I even (although it may seem anti-social) close the door and curtains when I'm INSIDE the room! Thus, if someone did in fact want to steal something (which I really doubt), even if they see my door closed, they don't know if I'm in the room or not! When I do leave. many times I just messily cover thing with like a coat or pillow. Unless someone really intends to steal something, I find this is enough!

(Do you really think a locked door on your house or car would really stop a determined thief?

)

I really think most people in a sleeper are honest!

I like the way you think!!! I do exactly the same thing when I'm in a sleeper!

 

[Gord]

Actually, I had an Amtrak experience in which a refurbished car's roomette locked me out, quite unexpectedly!

The room attendant and conductor had to use a sledgehammer and crowbar to knock the door down.

I always have wondered about that. What if someone is in the room with it locked properly and they have a medical emergency or die. Is a sledge hammer and crow bar the only way for the crew to get into the room?

On the Viewliner's with the original locks, there was indeed an easy and mimimally disruptive way to open a locked door. A small screw driver was all that was needed, along with the knowledge of what you actually needed to do.

As they've been replacing the locks with the type used on the Superliners, unfortunately that ability has gone by the wayside. And the Superliner style locks are indeed near impossible to open from the outside. AFAIK you've pretty much got to take out the glass or knock down the door in an emergency.

I had a bad experience getting locked into a Viewliner roomette with the old locks, being a bit claustrophobic, I wasn't happy. They were eventually able to get it open from the outside. The hook lifting mechanism in the old handle was not the greatest. The traditional Adlake-type, external hook now being used has been around for decades and is pretty much foolproof. Other people on the car had the same problem and I have heard other people mention being locked in. This may be why they are being changed.

Gord

 

[FunNut]

Many hotel rooms and cruise ship cabins now have digital safes, the combination is easily cleared and re-set by a new occupant. It wouldn't be that difficult for rooms on a train to have similar combination locks. I expect the issue here is the cost to put the locks into all the doors.

 

[Gord]

FWIW, last fall when I traveled on VIA's Ocean to Halifax, the Renaissance sleeper had door locks. I believe the key was the size of a credit card, but had holes in a certain pattern, not a magnetic strip. The attendant handed me the keys (2) and retrieved them at the end of the journey.

The door was hinged, not a slider.

Mike

Based on your post, I did some research on the VIA Rail Canada website. While it's encouraging to see that the Renaissance cars on The Ocean have door locks that can be locked from the outside, I couldn't find these cars available on any other train in the VIA Rail Canada fleet. Are these cars just being introduced into the fleet?

I did a test booking for a Cabin for 2 to see how their fares compared with Amtrak's for a similar trip. Montreal to Halifax on The Ocean is about 23 hours. The description of the room can be found here http://www.viarail.ca/en/resources/cabin-two-montreal-halifax. For August 25 the fare for 2 passengers in a Cabin for 2 is Can$991.04 with meals or Can$898.48 without meals. On Amtrak, the Silver Meteor from Miami to Washington, DC is also about 23 hours. For August 25 the fare for 2 passengers in a Roomette is US$669.00 and in a Bedroom is US$1,253.00. Comparing the room details, the Renaissance Car Cabin for 2 is about the same dimensions as the Amtrak Roomette.

For a single traveler, the cost comparison becomes a lot closer. On The Ocean on August 25, a Cabin for 2 is Can$570.02 with meals or Can$516.63 without meals. On Amtrak's Silver Meteor between Miami and Washington, DC on August 25, a roomette for 1 passenger is US$547.00 and a bedroom is US$1,131.00.

The punch card door locks came with the Renn equipment which were originally Nighstar cars intended for overnight service (which never materialized),through the Chunnel. Via's Budd sleepers use the standard and proven Adlake, external hook latch. The Renn sleepers being European are narrower and are not all that great for larger pasengers. The passageways in the sleepers are very tight even for an average-sized person. I find the Budd equipment far better, overall.

Gord

 

[troublebound]

Heck, I usually don't even lock my house doors unless I'm gone more than 4 days, As far as the roomettes, never saw a need for a lock. Maybe I'm not jaded enough.