On my latest Cap Ltd trip, June 15, I took an adult and a 2-year-old so we booked a family room (first time). We liked the family room very much, and once we looked around we went right to breakfast. As we waited for our food, our 2-year-old ate a packet of sweetener and a pat of butter. I thought the dining attendant was going to have a fit. She asked me why I let him do that, why didn't I stop him, he would get coronary trouble and be fat in later life, etc. I tried to make light of the situation and told her as long as he was willing to sit quietly and not bother other diners, I'd probably let him chew the paper napkins as well. She actually moved the bowl of butter pats off the table (and I moved it right back; he only ever eats one for crying out loud). After I thought about it later, I got pretty upset that she would stick her nose in and get so loud. I guess if he'd have been chewing a big old frosted jelly donut instead, that would have been fine. Anyway, I know that in the grand scheme of life this is not a big deal, but I'm still upset and wondering if I did something wrong.
Offended by Dining Car Service Person
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Montanan
OBS Chief
You're right: in the grand scheme of life, this is not a big deal.
That said, my personal opinion is that it's never too early to start teaching a child restaurant table manners. As for the conversation itself, I'm not going to comment ... because of course we're only hearing one side of it.
That said, my personal opinion is that it's never too early to start teaching a child restaurant table manners. As for the conversation itself, I'm not going to comment ... because of course we're only hearing one side of it.
amamba
Engineer
I am much more concerned with a child eating a packet of sweetener than one of butter, but either way, it was none of that person's business. If they have a problem and wanted to be sure there was enough butter for toast or for other passengers, that is one thing, but to frame the situation as "he would get coronary trouble and be fat later in life" was completely inappropriate and out of line.
Edited to add: Does this same dining service attendant not allow obese adults on the train to eat butter?! I mean, if they are concerned about coronary issues and people being fat, there is probably a good chunk of the menu that they serve that they should be worried about.
Edited to add: Does this same dining service attendant not allow obese adults on the train to eat butter?! I mean, if they are concerned about coronary issues and people being fat, there is probably a good chunk of the menu that they serve that they should be worried about.
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in some ways I agree and in some I don't. it really isn't the attendants business what you feed your child and it probably could have been worse. theoretically, your child might have eaten the butter anyway on a piece of toast during the meal.
however, those certainly aren't the healthiest things to eat and you know that already. if your child needs to snack or be kept busy while at a restaurant, the thing to do in the future would be to carry with you small snacks such as fruit chews, a small cup of cheerios or a small book or toy that would keep your child occupied. some habits that begin early in life are hard to get rid of and if you allow this sort of thing on a regular basis you may find yourself having a hard time breaking the habit. i had a younger sibling who was not taught any kind of manners at restaurants and was overindulged to the point of making him impossible to eat with at a restaurant. it only got worse as he grew older. so, for your sake and the child's, you might want to find some other options. i'm not trying to lecture you at all, just saying that I've seen small things like that escalate and that is not something you want to deal with later on.
however, those certainly aren't the healthiest things to eat and you know that already. if your child needs to snack or be kept busy while at a restaurant, the thing to do in the future would be to carry with you small snacks such as fruit chews, a small cup of cheerios or a small book or toy that would keep your child occupied. some habits that begin early in life are hard to get rid of and if you allow this sort of thing on a regular basis you may find yourself having a hard time breaking the habit. i had a younger sibling who was not taught any kind of manners at restaurants and was overindulged to the point of making him impossible to eat with at a restaurant. it only got worse as he grew older. so, for your sake and the child's, you might want to find some other options. i'm not trying to lecture you at all, just saying that I've seen small things like that escalate and that is not something you want to deal with later on.
U
upsthedaisy
Guest
I traveled the Cap Limited that week also and had some very bossy dining car attendants. My experience is that it really depends on what crew is working that trip. Our trip home was quite the opposite and excellent. You would probably have gotten the same reaction at some restaurants you also dine at. Hopefully, it was real sugar he ate and not the artificial sweeteners, but all children will experiment with pats of butter and big deal if he ate it plain or on a piece of toast. You are the parent and as long as it isn't an illegal substance she should have minded her own business.
G
Guest
Guest
As a preface to my response, I will say that I wasn't there to assess the situation, so my opinions are solely based on what I have read here.
I probably would not have let my child do such a thing and if I was seated with you I would have found it annoying, but that's not the point. It was NONE of the attendant's business and she should have kept her nose out of it. In my opinion, she was not concerned about your child's health, but rather was annoyed that something was out of her routine and what she thought should be happening a certain way wasn't to her liking. She would not have been bothered at all if your child were to put sweetener on some fruit or butter on a biscuit.
In my dozens of Amtrak trips from coast to coast, I have traveled mostly on the Capitol Limited and have found the dining and lounge service to be the most inconsistent of any route. While I have had excellent service most of the time, I have also run into some surly employees (and, I'm not really all that fussy).
I hope that while this is still fresh in your mind, you will contact Amtrak Customer Relations to report the experience. I also hope you remember her name. Amtrak does take these personnel complaints very seriously. A few years ago, on one of my regular Capitol Limited trips, I ran into the most rude person I have encountered ever in any customer service role at any company. This was the lead dining car attendant (if that's what they are called). I wrote a very detailed letter about my encounter and, while praising other employees onboard, I gave a word-for-word depiction of what happened in the diner. Not only was I contacted by a Customer Relations person, but I was also later contact by someone in HR and Onboard Services asking if I would be willing to provide a deposition, if necessary, as they were planning to take action. I got the feeling that I was not the first person to complain about this person.
I asked about this person by name on a later trip and was told that they were no longer with Amtrak.
I probably would not have let my child do such a thing and if I was seated with you I would have found it annoying, but that's not the point. It was NONE of the attendant's business and she should have kept her nose out of it. In my opinion, she was not concerned about your child's health, but rather was annoyed that something was out of her routine and what she thought should be happening a certain way wasn't to her liking. She would not have been bothered at all if your child were to put sweetener on some fruit or butter on a biscuit.
In my dozens of Amtrak trips from coast to coast, I have traveled mostly on the Capitol Limited and have found the dining and lounge service to be the most inconsistent of any route. While I have had excellent service most of the time, I have also run into some surly employees (and, I'm not really all that fussy).
I hope that while this is still fresh in your mind, you will contact Amtrak Customer Relations to report the experience. I also hope you remember her name. Amtrak does take these personnel complaints very seriously. A few years ago, on one of my regular Capitol Limited trips, I ran into the most rude person I have encountered ever in any customer service role at any company. This was the lead dining car attendant (if that's what they are called). I wrote a very detailed letter about my encounter and, while praising other employees onboard, I gave a word-for-word depiction of what happened in the diner. Not only was I contacted by a Customer Relations person, but I was also later contact by someone in HR and Onboard Services asking if I would be willing to provide a deposition, if necessary, as they were planning to take action. I got the feeling that I was not the first person to complain about this person.
I asked about this person by name on a later trip and was told that they were no longer with Amtrak.
R
Rider
Guest
I agree the wait person was out of line. Good points about butter on bread and heavy use of salt - which we all see everywhere. They could have spoken quietly to you if they felt the child's behavior inappropriate - but to lecture you loudly about disciplining your child is unacceptable.
After my recent LD circuit of North America, probably my biggest criticism on board staff is the wait staff in the diner. I have had rushed and rude wait staff several times. I don't expect them to fawn over me as might happen in a four star restaurant. But when they turn around and walk away without hearing the actual basics of an the order - nothing fussy or special, just saying whether "baked or mashed" - that kind of thing - and then get it wrong! - (this happened three or four times to me or others at the table with me) and when they are short and without patience - although I have never refused to leave any tip at all, let's just say several of them were smaller than normal.
I know, there are a lot of people to serve - which is why I often wait for a later seating time so I (and the wait person) are not rushed. But since the diner is one of the things people do claim to love about LD trains, I think a little more politeness is in order. (As always, there were many notable exceptions to these complaints - Alex on the LSL for example; I had great service often too - proving that it is not impossible, nor impractical, to be nice and still be efficient.)
Thoughts and prayers for the families of the victims and of the recent CZ tragedy.
After my recent LD circuit of North America, probably my biggest criticism on board staff is the wait staff in the diner. I have had rushed and rude wait staff several times. I don't expect them to fawn over me as might happen in a four star restaurant. But when they turn around and walk away without hearing the actual basics of an the order - nothing fussy or special, just saying whether "baked or mashed" - that kind of thing - and then get it wrong! - (this happened three or four times to me or others at the table with me) and when they are short and without patience - although I have never refused to leave any tip at all, let's just say several of them were smaller than normal.
I know, there are a lot of people to serve - which is why I often wait for a later seating time so I (and the wait person) are not rushed. But since the diner is one of the things people do claim to love about LD trains, I think a little more politeness is in order. (As always, there were many notable exceptions to these complaints - Alex on the LSL for example; I had great service often too - proving that it is not impossible, nor impractical, to be nice and still be efficient.)
Thoughts and prayers for the families of the victims and of the recent CZ tragedy.
Nickrapak
Service Attendant
I am of the opinion that it's not really anyone's business what you let your child eat. She overstepped her bounds as an attendant, and I would contact customer relations to voice your complaint.
None of us was there to witness the incident, except for the OP, and all we have is a text version of one side of the story.
Reading the above, however, I can't think of any way that someone would make comments like "he would get coronary trouble and be fat in later life" except (at least somewhat) in jest. But the way it was presented on here, you'd think the SA/LSA was a hair away from screaming at the family. I find that hard to believe.
It almost sounds like the OP was looking for a reason to be offended. After all, why would you "[think] about it later" when it was really such a minor deal?
Reading the above, however, I can't think of any way that someone would make comments like "he would get coronary trouble and be fat in later life" except (at least somewhat) in jest. But the way it was presented on here, you'd think the SA/LSA was a hair away from screaming at the family. I find that hard to believe.
It almost sounds like the OP was looking for a reason to be offended. After all, why would you "[think] about it later" when it was really such a minor deal?
Cristobal
Lead Service Attendant
This thread is really a joke right?
Forget all the health related BS, does the OP's 'precious snowflake' really get to do whatever they want while seated at a table in the dining car? Next might be sucking down packettes of salad dressing just because they were on the table.
Bring crackers or something with you to dinner to keep the child entertained but don't expect the rest of us (including the dining car attendants) to just say, "Awww, isn't that cute?".
The dining car attendant was probably out of line mentioning the health aspects but I don't think that they were out of line by moving the bowl off of the table. I'm pretty sure that the butter is placed there for reasons other than letting some 2 yo just suck them down.
Forget all the health related BS, does the OP's 'precious snowflake' really get to do whatever they want while seated at a table in the dining car? Next might be sucking down packettes of salad dressing just because they were on the table.
Bring crackers or something with you to dinner to keep the child entertained but don't expect the rest of us (including the dining car attendants) to just say, "Awww, isn't that cute?".
The dining car attendant was probably out of line mentioning the health aspects but I don't think that they were out of line by moving the bowl off of the table. I'm pretty sure that the butter is placed there for reasons other than letting some 2 yo just suck them down.
Who cares if it's "cute" or not? The ticketed passenger was eating food that was offered on the table. A pat of butter and some sugar. Less butter and less sugar than is in a freakin' croissant, but the nutritional aspects of this conversation are really pretty irrelevant.
It is not the place of a food server to make a single comment about the nature of the food a customer is eating as relates to that customer's health, with the possible exception of a bartender with an inebriated patron. For all anyone knows, that person may have a medical requirement to consume foods you think are bad for them (unlikely in this case, if only because the poster would likely have mentioned any such considerations; the dining car attendant would have no such expectation of explanation, though)
I'm not seeing how eating some of the available butter and a bit of sugar is getting "to do whatever they want while seated at a table in the dining car"- it's pretty much... eating, at the table, in the dining car. And not yelling, whining, throwing things, laughing drunkenly, sticking a foot across the aisle, complaining about the chicken tasting like chicken, dropping crumbs everywhere, spilling drinks, yelling at the attendant because they didn't know you needed to have made a reservation an hour ago, or any of the hundreds of ways passengers have been known to be annoying in the dining car of an Amtrak train.
Meh. The server was out of line in a surprising way, and I really wouldn't be worrying about it going forward.
It is not the place of a food server to make a single comment about the nature of the food a customer is eating as relates to that customer's health, with the possible exception of a bartender with an inebriated patron. For all anyone knows, that person may have a medical requirement to consume foods you think are bad for them (unlikely in this case, if only because the poster would likely have mentioned any such considerations; the dining car attendant would have no such expectation of explanation, though)
I'm not seeing how eating some of the available butter and a bit of sugar is getting "to do whatever they want while seated at a table in the dining car"- it's pretty much... eating, at the table, in the dining car. And not yelling, whining, throwing things, laughing drunkenly, sticking a foot across the aisle, complaining about the chicken tasting like chicken, dropping crumbs everywhere, spilling drinks, yelling at the attendant because they didn't know you needed to have made a reservation an hour ago, or any of the hundreds of ways passengers have been known to be annoying in the dining car of an Amtrak train.
Meh. The server was out of line in a surprising way, and I really wouldn't be worrying about it going forward.
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
I agree. While it is true that we are only hearing one side of the story, I would be offended if someone did to me what you recount, and unfortunately I've encountered enough bad attitudes from Amtrak employees to not doubt the plausibility of what you wrote.
transit54
Conductor
As to whether or not it's appropriate for your child to consume a butter packet and a sweetener, I have no opinion to offer. I don't have children, don't know the first thing about caring for children, and don't have any desire to have children in the immediate or foreseeable future.
All that being said, I'd say the dining car attendant was overstepping her bounds.
Why?
1) I doubt that she would have done the same thing had an adult begun their meal in the same way. Thus, it wasn't like she was protecting Amtrak's resources from unnecessary or unjustified consumption.
2) The child's behavior wasn't affecting anyone else. The only time I feel it's proper to address a parent's behavior towards their children (especially as a non-parent) is when the children are creating an impact on others. And generally, that's how I feel about life. If what someone is doing doesn't affect anyone other than themselves, I stay out of the matter.
3) When I go to a restaurant, I don't expect to be given health advice by the waitstaff. I would assume this would carry over to Amtrak, as well as to any children that might be in the dining car. I can't imagine what I'd say if I was on the CZ and on my second night the attendant said, "You've eaten nothing but red meat for lunch and dinner since you've boarded - that isn't good for you. Are you really sure you want to order another Flat Iron Steak?" I'd certainly be taken aback and briefly mention that I don't think it's appropriate for them to make comments on the health of my meals while on board.
Now, if the child had continued to consume butter and or sweetener packets, I could see the server being justified in moving them away and just stating that they are there to be added to meals, or something to that extent. But I don't think one of each is excessive and I would occasionally sneak a sugar packet from the table as a child, though my mother frowned on it.
That being said, I would have just said to the server, "I appreciate your concern, but I'd think it's appropriate for you to comment on my decisions as a parent" or something to that extent, and just let it go. I don't think it's a large enough issue that it warrants a letter to Amtrak or anything of that nature.
All that being said, I'd say the dining car attendant was overstepping her bounds.
Why?
1) I doubt that she would have done the same thing had an adult begun their meal in the same way. Thus, it wasn't like she was protecting Amtrak's resources from unnecessary or unjustified consumption.
2) The child's behavior wasn't affecting anyone else. The only time I feel it's proper to address a parent's behavior towards their children (especially as a non-parent) is when the children are creating an impact on others. And generally, that's how I feel about life. If what someone is doing doesn't affect anyone other than themselves, I stay out of the matter.
3) When I go to a restaurant, I don't expect to be given health advice by the waitstaff. I would assume this would carry over to Amtrak, as well as to any children that might be in the dining car. I can't imagine what I'd say if I was on the CZ and on my second night the attendant said, "You've eaten nothing but red meat for lunch and dinner since you've boarded - that isn't good for you. Are you really sure you want to order another Flat Iron Steak?" I'd certainly be taken aback and briefly mention that I don't think it's appropriate for them to make comments on the health of my meals while on board.
Now, if the child had continued to consume butter and or sweetener packets, I could see the server being justified in moving them away and just stating that they are there to be added to meals, or something to that extent. But I don't think one of each is excessive and I would occasionally sneak a sugar packet from the table as a child, though my mother frowned on it.
That being said, I would have just said to the server, "I appreciate your concern, but I'd think it's appropriate for you to comment on my decisions as a parent" or something to that extent, and just let it go. I don't think it's a large enough issue that it warrants a letter to Amtrak or anything of that nature.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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I also don't think it is a large enough issue to warrant over a dozen post long thread either But hey! As long as everyone is having fun.....
But hey! As long as everyone is having fun..... 
We used to take sugar cubes to the stables to give to the horses. And eat some ourselves. Yum. And I'm old enough to remember them giving us the ?polio? vaccine on a sugar cube. Now if only all vaccines/shots could be given that way. :wub:
rrdude
Engineer
Well at least now I know why I'm in such sad shape.
I used to LOVE eating those sugar cubes on the table when dining out at restaurants, and certainly helped myself to several butter pats, on Saltines.
I used to LOVE eating those sugar cubes on the table when dining out at restaurants, and certainly helped myself to several butter pats, on Saltines.
Everydaymatters
Engineer
The first thing that came to mind when I read the original post was did the 2 year old smear the sugar and butter all over the table? Two year olds do things like that. If so, I'd have to say the dining attendant was probably trying to make light of a mess she had to clean up.
None of us heard the tone of voice when she said that and none of us saw what the toddler actually did. Did the 2 year old get butter all over the butter dish? Did he/she squeeze all the butter pats?
As said before, there are 2 sides to every story.
None of us heard the tone of voice when she said that and none of us saw what the toddler actually did. Did the 2 year old get butter all over the butter dish? Did he/she squeeze all the butter pats?
As said before, there are 2 sides to every story.
Cho Cho Charlie
Engineer
Sorry, but I am going to buck the trend here.
IMHO, that is an example of some rather poor parenting. Letting your 2-year-old do whatever they please, and using the lame excuse that it keeps them quiet, is just plain wrong.
Whether the waitstaff should have pointed it out to you isn't as relevant as the fact that someone obviously needs to point it out.
I assume you do this all the time when out in public. I am quite surprised that you have never had anyone step in like this before (or have they?).
G
Guest
Guest
What some people see as jest, others take seriously. This applies very much when the two parties are at different social levels such as a server and customer relationship. Amtrak's service is very rough around the edges and I doubt the "dining division management" (aka not-a-maitre'd) has taught the servers how to present themselves in front of the customer. I swear every time I am in the dining car the servers are acting like they work at a greasy spoon instead of serving first class passengers.
jis
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I agree with that sentiment Choo Choo. I know my parents would not allow me or my sister do anything of the sort in a public place, when we were that age.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
I think I'd have to agree as well. If the OP had any clue what sort of health related complications are attributed to the use of artificial sweeteners or what chemicals are used in the production of paper napkins they presumably wouldn't be using them as behavior suppressants on a still developing toddler. But then it doesn't sound like the OP is the type of person to ever research any of this in the first place. Which means they probably have no idea that neither of those things have probably ever been tested on toddlers. I'm the sort of guy who's predisposed to find error with Amtrak dining staff, but in the end I found the actions of the parent to be far more confusing and disconcerting. My guess (and my hope) is that the OP senses this based on the fact they even started this thread.
It is interesting to watch the opinions here ebb and flow - now we are blaming the OP for being a poor parent I'm a nice guy, I'll go with the current opinion although I don't REALLY think so - but I have to ask, Is it the server's place to chastise the OP for his alleged poor parenting??
I would appreciate the servers information and advice about the food (I wish someone had warned me off the shrimp scampi :help: ) but as far as parenting advice - STFU!!
I would appreciate the servers information and advice about the food (I wish someone had warned me off the shrimp scampi :help: ) but as far as parenting advice - STFU!!
To your point, at first I was shocked at the intrusion and immediately felt guilty like I should not have allowed the butter and sweet packet. (BTW, to a PP, I did not mean to intimate that the server screamed--but she spoke loudly). The 2 year old had other treats that I bring along, but he really likes a pat of butter and a sweet packet if they are available. He is allowed one of each if he asks. He does not make a mess as he wants it all in his mouth. The remark about letting him eat the napkin was intended to try to shut the unwanted exchange down. He is not permitted to do anything that would interfere with another diner's experience unless seeing him eat a butter pat and sweet packet counts as interference. When I posted this admittedly trivial incident, I was very prepared for posters to disagree with my reaction, however I am never as prepared for snarking as I should be. Thanks for your input
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