Radio listeners recommending bus instead of flying

[Casinocim]

This morning listening to a radio show, 105.9 here in Denver, they were discussing security at the airport. Talking about the pat downs vs. the body scanners.

One of the listeners said something about riding the bus instead and another caller agreed.

Do most people not know about Amtrak? Even though I have taken the bus, my first thoughts were NOooooooo not the bus for travel!!!!

I think Amtrak needs to step up their advertising.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

One of the listeners said something about riding the bus instead and another caller agreed. Do most people not know about Amtrak? Even though I have taken the bus, my first thoughts were NOooooooo not the bus for travel!!!! I think Amtrak needs to step up their advertising.

The parts I'm still missing are why you didn't call-in your support for Amtrak instead of simply posting about it here or why you think there's any extra money left over for additional advertising? All of us here have a role to play in the future of passenger rail travel in the US. We can either accept that role or just keep pushing it off onto someone else.

 

[buck1108]

One of the listeners said something about riding the bus instead and another caller agreed. Do most people not know about Amtrak? Even though I have taken the bus, my first thoughts were NOooooooo not the bus for travel!!!! I think Amtrak needs to step up their advertising.

The parts I'm still missing are why you didn't call-in your support for Amtrak instead of simply posting about it here or why you think there's any extra money left over for additional advertising? All of us here have a role to play in the future of passenger rail travel in the US. We can either accept that role or just keep pushing it off onto someone else.

Talk about being misunderstood...wish you all wouldn't be so light hearted about this topic

Yeah, bus travel sure lacks comfort! I once rode 18 hours and couldn't walk when I got off at the stop.

 

[MrFSS]

One thing that people, in Denver, would be concerned about is: There are probably dozens of buses a day going in a number of different directions. Only two Amtrak trains with limited coverage. What if you wanted to fly from Denver to ABQ, no train. What about Denver to MSP, No direct train. What about Denver to LA - no direct train. The bus is thought of as you can go so many more places than on a train. I know this doesn't help the problem, but it might explain why the bus was thought of rather than the train.

I don't know if there is bus service from Denver to the cities I mentioned above, but people would be more inclined to think there was rather than the train.

 

[the_traveler]

Not speaking as a railfan, I would be more likely to think of a train from KIN or WLY, because the nearest intercity bus is 30-40 miles away! But if I lived in say Jacksonville (even if Amtrak advertised extensively) and I wanted to go to Atlanta or New Orleans, sure you can take a train between the 2 cities - taking 2 overnights via WAS!

But I think most people would first consider a bus

for a "short" ride!

 

[TransitGeek]

Greyhound's route map

I don't think I need to post Amtrak's for comparison. You all know where to find it.

Amtrak's service in the West, outside of California and the Cascades route, is skeletal at best. For a lot of routes, the bus is the better option- not to mention the more frequent one and often the cheaper one.

 

[Gratt]

One thing that people, in Denver, would be concerned about is: There are probably dozens of buses a day going in a number of different directions. Only two Amtrak trains with limited coverage. What if you wanted to fly from Denver to ABQ, no train. What about Denver to MSP, No direct train. What about Denver to LA - no direct train. The bus is thought of as you can go so many more places than on a train. I know this doesn't help the problem, but it might explain why the bus was thought of rather than the train.

I don't know if there is bus service from Denver to the cities I mentioned above, but people would be more inclined to think there was rather than the train.

Agreed, but at the very least should focus on taking this message to places like Chicago and the NEC where many people take flights where Amtrak does offer frequent service. I would love to see an ad that said "don't want the TSA to see you naked? Take Amtrak for that next trip!" Maybe if the ratio of rail vs airline between NYC and DC goes to a 90/10 ratio the airlines will take notice.

As a side note we are getting fans. Jeffrey Goldberg a reporter for the The Atlantic has been ranting against these devices for few weeks. I think he is starting to take a shine to trains.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/11/an-even-better-though-more-fatalistic-tsa-idea-than-kilts/66586/

and for a laugh read some of these posts

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/11/tsa-opt-out-day-now-with-a-superfantastic-new-twist/66545/

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/10/for-the-first-time-the-tsa-meets-resistance/65390/

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/11/-are-any-parts-of-your-body-sore-asks-the-man-from-tsa/65482/

 

[Tim in Wisconsin]

Agreed, but at the very least should focus on taking this message to places like Chicago and the NEC where many people take flights where Amtrak does offer frequent service. I would love to see an ad that said "don't want the TSA to see you naked? Take Amtrak for that next trip!"

Amtrak has already been advertising at O'Hare's security checkpoints:

http://daveibsen.typepad.com/5_blogs_before_lunch/2010/01/amtrak-is-advertising-at-airport-security-checkpoints.html

Those were good times, back when we only had to worry about people seeing our socks.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Here's a closer look...

Security Bucket Advertisement



Other Airport Advertising



Personally I think it's a great way to get eyeballs. The only problem is that the over-stylized imagery might be a little too abstract for people who haven't been on a train since they were little kids, if ever. How often does Amtrak still run an FP at the front? There's also the fact that Amtrak is currently advertising a perk that they don't have any direct control over. If the TSA wanted to, they could start causing trouble for Amtrak as well.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I fear this will be too good for Amtrak and we'll be looking at constantly sold out trains, at least until more cars can be brought on service. People are getting fed up with flying and I just heard a call for pax to do whatever they can to tie up and delay TSA security next Wednesday.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I fear this will be too good for Amtrak and we'll be looking at constantly sold out trains, at least until more cars can be brought on service. People are getting fed up with flying and I just heard a call for pax to do whatever they can to tie up and delay TSA security next Wednesday.

Wait, now we're against sold out trains?! If I ever login to Amtrak.com and can't get any seats due to sold out trains I'd be absolutely ecstatic! But I honestly doubt that will actually happen. Passengers may well start pushing back against the TSA's ever more invasive rules, but I don't see people leaving in droves to Amtrak. The family SUV is the likely winner in the never ending war on our civil liberties. Goes where you want, when you want, as far as you want with no inspections of any kind for most trips. Sure, it eats up gas like there's no tomorrow, but as we can all see that's not stopping American families from driving near and far.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

While the idea of sold out trains is nice, I sure enjoy snagging low bucket fares and being able to get a seat in the Lounge :lol:

 

[Everydaymatters]

I'm still in complete shock over the audacity of TSA. I mean, how dare they? Explosive devices have never been found through their scanners or pat downs, and now they've gone completely over the line. I'm outraged.

MrFSS is correct in that Amtrak doesn't go to as many locations as Greyhound. I think more people will be driving than either taking the bus or the train. Amtrak could really monopolize on this. But for starters, they will need more coach cars to handle the backlash. Sold out trains won't help their bottom line as much as it could be helped.

 

[Guest]

I would love to see an ad that said "don't want the TSA to see you naked? Take Amtrak for that next trip!"

That is exactly what they need to do. The mismatched socks ad in the bins is clever, but I think telling it straight up gets the point across much better.

 

[Gratt]

I would love to see an ad that said "don't want the TSA to see you naked? Take Amtrak for that next trip!"

That is exactly what they need to do. The mismatched socks ad in the bins is clever, but I think telling it straight up gets the point across much better.

Another one could be "we love to reach out to our customers... Just not down there!" :giggle:

can we add some more? :lol:

 

[the_traveler]

How about "Feeling well Today? Let us check !"

 

[frj1983]

One thing that people, in Denver, would be concerned about is: There are probably dozens of buses a day going in a number of different directions. Only two Amtrak trains with limited coverage. What if you wanted to fly from Denver to ABQ, no train. What about Denver to MSP, No direct train. What about Denver to LA - no direct train. The bus is thought of as you can go so many more places than on a train. I know this doesn't help the problem, but it might explain why the bus was thought of rather than the train.

I don't know if there is bus service from Denver to the cities I mentioned above, but people would be more inclined to think there was rather than the train.

Agreed, but at the very least should focus on taking this message to places like Chicago and the NEC where many people take flights where Amtrak does offer frequent service. I would love to see an ad that said "don't want the TSA to see you naked? Take Amtrak for that next trip!" Maybe if the ratio of rail vs airline between NYC and DC goes to a 90/10 ratio the airlines will take notice.

As a side note we are getting fans. Jeffrey Goldberg a reporter for the The Atlantic has been ranting against these devices for few weeks. I think he is starting to take a shine to trains.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/11/an-even-better-though-more-fatalistic-tsa-idea-than-kilts/66586/

and for a laugh read some of these posts

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/11/tsa-opt-out-day-now-with-a-superfantastic-new-twist/66545/

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/10/for-the-first-time-the-tsa-meets-resistance/65390/

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/11/-are-any-parts-of-your-body-sore-asks-the-man-from-tsa/65482/

Actually,

Amtrak does do a little advertising here in Chicago. I often see printed advertisements on the L trains and the bus giving info on local services: Milwaukee, St. Louis, etc.

 

[Anderson]

Well, a bunch of airports are getting irked enough at the TSA to kick them out. Of course, I'll grant that what I really want to see is the pilots union threaten some one-day strikes with lots and lots of notice over this mess (and I do think they could pull that off on an airline-by-airline basis when the contract comes up...just demand that the airline work out a deal with the TSA involving background checks and so forth on them "or else", or load a clause into the contracts enabling pilots to no-show if they're sent through either a backscatter machine or an enhanced patdown). Of course, the fact that such strikes could make a complete hash of airline travel wouldn't have anything to do with my desire to see them happen. None at all!

Edit: As to adverts, we've actually seen them appearing in Virginia...I can't comment on airports (I already avoid flying like the plague), but I know we've got a few billboards in conjunction with the expanded Richmond and Lynchburg services.

 

[MattW]

Just imagine if the unions decided to strike on November 24 this year! Couple a few airline strikes with national opt-out day...*rofls at the mental image*

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Just imagine if the unions decided to strike on November 24 this year! Couple a few airline strikes with national opt-out day...*rofls at the mental image*

When was the last time a pilots union actually went on strike?

 

[Anderson]

Just imagine if the unions decided to strike on November 24 this year! Couple a few airline strikes with national opt-out day...*rofls at the mental image*

When was the last time a pilots union actually went on strike?

June. That's June, 2010. I seem to recall a few close calls in the 2000s...for example, the pilots at American were looking at non-strike disruptions in 2009. So it's not as unheard of as you'd think.

 

[Pastor Dave]

This morning listening to a radio show, 105.9 here in Denver, they were discussing security at the airport. Talking about the pat downs vs. the body scanners.

One of the listeners said something about riding the bus instead and another caller agreed.

Do most people not know about Amtrak? Even though I have taken the bus, my first thoughts were NOooooooo not the bus for travel!!!!

I think Amtrak needs to step up their advertising.

Bus travel for me has been like a colonoscopy: not always desirable but sometimes necessary. I have to travel roughly between 70 - 90 miles to get to an Amtrak station where a train may, or may not, drop me off at a convenient location. In the little borough where I now live, I can walk to a bus station where I can pick up a bus that will take me to another bus that will take me to an awful lot of different locations. The bus usually takes longer, is less comfortable, and has no escapes like a lounge car. But it can get me from point A to point B if necessary.

Whether or not I necessarily want to, I also have to figure in cost. For those who are "car-less" many times the bus is just a more economical option.

I do think Amtrak could gain more business by doing more advertising. But I'm not sure it would be a profitable pursuit in most areas outside the Northeast and major hubs.

Another point worth taking is that Greyhound often has a selection of departure/arrival times to major markets, where Amtrak may just offer one or two per day.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

June. That's June, 2010. I seem to recall a few close calls in the 2000s...for example, the pilots at American were looking at non-strike disruptions in 2009. So it's not as unheard of as you'd think.

Hmm. I've never flown Spirit. I guess they're just not on my radar. The last major strike I can recall was by Northwest's mechanics but I think they were all let go in the end.

 

[Anderson]

June. That's June, 2010. I seem to recall a few close calls in the 2000s...for example, the pilots at American were looking at non-strike disruptions in 2009. So it's not as unheard of as you'd think.

Hmm. I've never flown Spirit. I guess they're just not on my radar. The last major strike I can recall was by Northwest's mechanics but I think they were all let go in the end.

To be fair, as I understand it, Spirit was being unusually resistant to negotiations with the union, and things spiraled out of control. Spirit has...issues.

 

[saxman]

Just imagine if the unions decided to strike on November 24 this year! Couple a few airline strikes with national opt-out day...*rofls at the mental image*

When was the last time a pilots union actually went on strike?

Spirit Airlines back in June. Amerijet last year, a cargo airline based in Florida. And the fairly well known Comair pilot strike back in 2001 lasted for 89 days.

Well, a bunch of airports are getting irked enough at the TSA to kick them out.

Do you mean airports kick the TSA out? I'm not so sure they can do that.

Of course, I'll grant that what I really want to see is the pilots union threaten some one-day strikes with lots and lots of notice over this mess (and I do think they could pull that off on an airline-by-airline basis when the contract comes up...just demand that the airline work out a deal with the TSA involving background checks and so forth on them "or else", or load a clause into the contracts enabling pilots to no-show if they're sent through either a backscatter machine or an enhanced patdown). Of course, the fact that such strikes could make a complete hash of airline travel wouldn't have anything to do with my desire to see them happen. None at all!

Pilot's unions have been working on this for a few years now. So far they've only been able to let pilots bypass security at 3 airports nationwide. Pilot groups are trying to get their airline management to spread this throughout the system for a nominal fee, but as you may know, getting airlines to spend cash for the benefit of their employees is like pulling teeth.

Also the pilot's unions usually can't just strike over an issue with the TSA. You can't get something in a contract when it violates federal or state law. Much less many of those strikes would be deemed illegal without going through process of the Railway Labor Act.