How do you know that?
Thing's i learned riding on the Texas Eagle
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Texan Eagle
Conductor
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Well, because that class does not exist on Amtrak; and the future orders that Amtrak has placed also do not feature a couchette/bunk sleeper class.
Agreed - with the caveat that in some cases when travelling with another person, coach may be preferable to a roomette (though not a bedroom) due to the cramped space in the latter. However, to the how much question, I'd have to basically say low bucket/AGR or situations where you really need to get sleep are the only times it's really worth it, particularly when going alone.
Take for example my upcoming WAS trip - I ended up paying $208 coach TOL-WAS roundtrip (with a connecting bus to ARB) for Memorial Day weekend. However, if I wanted a sleeper, I'd have to pay over $400 total fare one way for a roomette - and coming back roomettes were sold out, so I'd be paying over $500 for a bedroom+railfare. In this case, it was definitely not worth $1000 roundtrip for a 13 hr train ride- though had low bucket roomettes been available, I might have at least snagged one for the return leg (with early AM arrivals, I like having the sleeper). The only way I might consider paying that much would be if I were going cross-country - and even then I'd be reluctant.
(Granted, I may have saved $ by booking early - but most of my plans only come together a few weeks in advance. However, when I first looked a few months ago it would have still been $700+ for RT in a roomette - and only slightly less on another weekend.)
Take for example my upcoming WAS trip - I ended up paying $208 coach TOL-WAS roundtrip (with a connecting bus to ARB) for Memorial Day weekend. However, if I wanted a sleeper, I'd have to pay over $400 total fare one way for a roomette - and coming back roomettes were sold out, so I'd be paying over $500 for a bedroom+railfare. In this case, it was definitely not worth $1000 roundtrip for a 13 hr train ride- though had low bucket roomettes been available, I might have at least snagged one for the return leg (with early AM arrivals, I like having the sleeper). The only way I might consider paying that much would be if I were going cross-country - and even then I'd be reluctant.
(Granted, I may have saved $ by booking early - but most of my plans only come together a few weeks in advance. However, when I first looked a few months ago it would have still been $700+ for RT in a roomette - and only slightly less on another weekend.)
Texan Eagle said:
You do realize that there is a significant difference between "considering" something and implementing something, right?
Ryan
Court Jester
That doesn't mean that they haven't considered this.
Considering the fact that they used to offer this class of service and phased it out in the 1990s (?), it's a safe bet that they have considered this and have no interest in pursuing it.
Texan Eagle
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Sorry I should have phrased it better- I know there is a difference between "considering" and "implementing"; I also know many moons ago Amtrak and pre-Amtrak rail companies offered this class, what I meant was, it is sad that Amtrak is not re-considering introducing this class. They may have done a survey in 1990s and found few takers for this class, but United States in 2012 is a different country than 1990s, with increased interest in taking the trains owing to airlines not being the nice experience they used to be and driving costs going up day by day. I wonder aloud, is this the time for Amtrak to re-consider their decision and bring back the intermediate sleeping class? Would it get enough takers in today's times? My gut feeling says yes, but then I am no expert.
PS: Please don't bring the standard Amtrak-has-no-money-and-nothing-new-is-gonna-come angle. I know that, but railfans can dream, right?
While I of course like Amtrak and I'm also willing to admit that there are plenty of things that Amtrak does wrong and/or gets wrong, I can't imagine that Amtrak spent all that money on the new fleet plans without at least considering the idea. It was the perfect time to consider whether or not there was enough demand to warrant keeping around a second type of sleeping car. I rather doubt that they were relying on some survey from back in the 1990's.Sorry I should have phrased it better- I know there is a difference between "considering" and "implementing"; I also know many moons ago Amtrak and pre-Amtrak rail companies offered this class, what I meant was, it is sad that Amtrak is not re-considering introducing this class. They may have done a survey in 1990s and found few takers for this class, but United States in 2012 is a different country than 1990s, with increased interest in taking the trains owing to airlines not being the nice experience they used to be and driving costs going up day by day. I wonder aloud, is this the time for Amtrak to re-consider their decision and bring back the intermediate sleeping class? Would it get enough takers in today's times? My gut feeling says yes, but then I am no expert.
PS: Please don't bring the standard Amtrak-has-no-money-and-nothing-new-is-gonna-come angle. I know that, but railfans can dream, right?
I mean it costs them nothing extra to suggest buying that type of car, even if they never actually get that type of car. So why not at least look into the idea? The fact that it doesn't appear in the fleet plan says to me that the benefits didn't outweigh the costs of buying & maintaining two styles of sleeping cars.
lthanlon
OBS Chief
Sleeping horizontal is more refreshing than I ever imagined. One trip, I rode coach going out and had roomette coming back -- and being able to stretch out flat made all the difference. It's heaven.
Ryan
Court Jester
Then we're just back to the difference between considering and implementing. I'm sure that they could have re-considered it without your knowledge.
Shortline
Conductor
I think this thread has gone way off topic, but I'll add to that anyway. For me, it's sleeper or nothing for anything over about 6 hours. I like the quiet and privacy of the sleeper. I'm looking at a trip to SAS in a few weeks, was going to fly, but think I'll take the train just for fun. If I go, I will be in a roomette for the 7 hours on the TE. If the HF had a sleeper, I'd buy a room in it too for that 4 hours. I wouldn't even consider an overnight trip in coach anymore. (I did a long one back in 1992, Spokane-Chicago-Little Rock) but I was young, just coming out of USAF SERE school at Fairchild AFB where I slept on the ground for most of 2 weeks.....Coach was doable then, especially since back then, the OBS folks weren't too big on checking ID's in the bar. Not so much for me now.
PaulM
Engineer
I'm a great fan of couchettes as well, but only for a 10:30PM to 7:30AM ride. The problem with them here is that LD trains all involve quite a bit of day time travel as well. Would you like to ride is a couchette all day long?
Those lay-flat seats that I keep seeing for airline first class/business class seems to be a good middle-of-the-road alternative. They turn to seats during the day, so that problem would be mitigated.
T
Tony D
Guest
Of course it's better in a sleeper, it's even better in a private jet. I just don't understand how it's justified unless money is not a concern. On an overnight for a family of four it's $600.00 in coach and $2,500 in a family room. That's $1,900.00 difference, you can't eat half the difference including as much coffee you can drink. " It's better in a sleeper", well DUH!
Ryan
Court Jester
I'm glad that you brought this 2 year old thread back to life to express that opinion, even if it isn't entirely grounded in reality. Single overnights in the Family room are available for significantly less than $2500 (less than half that on some days).
ehbowen
Engineer
We took a Big Family Trip from Houston to L. A. (Disneyland) with five adults and six kids (ages 1-13) in 2006. By booking early and catching the low buckets, we took the entire group in four roomettes and the family bedroom for just a smidge over $3300. Round trip.
Yes, the prices CAN be exorbitant, but if you're flexible and shop around....
Yes, the prices CAN be exorbitant, but if you're flexible and shop around....
ehbowen
Engineer
Fares have gone up since, and half of our party was half-fare kids (and the baby was free); still, I think we caught a heckuva deal. The kids still talk about it 8 years later.
the_traveler
Engineer
But even with fares going up, that's only $300 per person, with beds and meals. I may be wrong, but I don't think airlines have kids fares - I think it's all or nothing. And many kids won't think about "the time I went on Piedmont or Republic or Eastern Airlines" but most remember "that train trip I took years ago"!
I agree with Dave and ehbowen! Good family memories are like that Credit Card Commercial, Priceless!
neroden
Engineer
I actually remember the "romance of the air", the excitement of particular plane trips, but it's kind of totally dead now. "Security" pretty much eliminates it.
VentureForth
Engineer
I'm not that old, yet I remember when my parents insisted that I dress in a suit when I flew...
ehbowen
Engineer
Round trip airfares at the time were running about $300 or so, but you are correct that there was no discount for children. The baby could have flown free as a lap infant, but we would have been looking at about $3000, plus fees. I think checked baggage fees had already been introduced by then, and it would have run us a bunch...we traveled with a mountain of luggage! (Plus strollers and car seats!)But even with fares going up, that's only $300 per person, with beds and meals. I may be wrong, but I don't think airlines have kids fares - I think it's all or nothing. And many kids won't think about "the time I went on Piedmont or Republic or Eastern Airlines" but most remember "that train trip I took years ago"!
Still, with only a 10% base line difference between first class on Amtrak and coach on the airlines...easy call!
seat38a
Engineer
This image is from my discussion in the airline forum that I follow. Now that is a DC 10 with only 8 seats across. This is a picture from a Northwest Orient Airlines (Yes that was their name back then) DC 10 in the 70's while most of the people in the picture are nicely dressed, there still is the one guy with his feet up on the seat in front of him. It does not matter what decade your in, there is always someone without class. Not sure how old you are but my mom made us get dressed when we flew and that was in the mid to late 80's.
cirdan
Engineer
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Didn't the Sunset Limited fall into a bayou once?
jis
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A train has also fallen into the muck of Hackensack River from the Portal Bridge between Newark and New York too! Mostly an AEM-7 and a baggage car of the Fast mail early one morning way back when.
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