Viewliner Diner on the Road

[ctim2]

Are there any photos available of the interior of the Viewliner Diner?

I was on the Cardinal on Wednesday when number 8400 was shunted onto the back of Viewliner 62020 Moonlightview in Washington (may be from the Great Downunder but I know how you guys love these details).

The carriage is a total wreck, it has been completely gutted from the kitchen/corridor section and has only minimal panelling left in the dining section. It was accompanied by Amtrak crew from Washington to (I presume - I was in bed) Indianopolis.

Nevertheless, we must have made a pretty cool consist with three Amcans, one Amcan dinerlite, one Viewliner and the one and only (pretend) Viewliner diner.

If you want interior and exterior pics I've got them in my camera and I'm home in just over a week (CZ tomorrow) but I'm blowed if I know how to attach them to a post in this site.

I'll post a travelogue or three when I get home and have a broadband connection, but, overall it has been a very good trip so far (and that has completely jinxed it).

Looking forward to the pics! This site does not host pictures, you have to save them somewhere else and then embed a link.

Did you get to go inside the diner? If so, did you do that on your own or did someone let you?

I went by Beech Grove today, the 8400 is there. was on the end of a long line of single level cars on the east side of the shops. Just an observation, Many of the wreaked Superliners that had been line up out back have been moved..and I saw a few sticking out of shops. Looks like there going to work.

Here is video of the dinner heading west: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iljW7ZUjiRE...feature=related.

Ctim2

 

[Konrad]

Hokay,

I've never had any success doing this but I hope this turns into a link to my pictures taken in WUS on 8 April 2009 en-route to Chicago on the Cardinal.

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/Ozmike52/US...524010286092578

 

[Konrad]

Are there any photos available of the interior of the Viewliner Diner?

I was on the Cardinal on Wednesday when number 8400 was shunted onto the back of Viewliner 62020 Moonlightview in Washington (may be from the Great Downunder but I know how you guys love these details).

The carriage is a total wreck, it has been completely gutted from the kitchen/corridor section and has only minimal panelling left in the dining section. It was accompanied by Amtrak crew from Washington to (I presume - I was in bed) Indianopolis.

Nevertheless, we must have made a pretty cool consist with three Amcans, one Amcan dinerlite, one Viewliner and the one and only (pretend) Viewliner diner.

If you want interior and exterior pics I've got them in my camera and I'm home in just over a week (CZ tomorrow) but I'm blowed if I know how to attach them to a post in this site.

I'll post a travelogue or three when I get home and have a broadband connection, but, overall it has been a very good trip so far (and that has completely jinxed it).

Looking forward to the pics! This site does not host pictures, you have to save them somewhere else and then embed a link.

Did you get to go inside the diner? If so, did you do that on your own or did someone let you?

I went by Beech Grove today, the 8400 is there. was on the end of a long line of single level cars on the east side of the shops. Just an observation, Many of the wreaked Superliners that had been line up out back have been moved..and I saw a few sticking out of shops. Looks like there going to work.

Here is video of the dinner heading west: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iljW7ZUjiRE...feature=related.

Try again

8400

Ctim2

 

[Konrad]

I surrender!

I've got the pics, they're on the web, but I can't link them to here.

If you want 'em tutor me or email me.

 

[Konrad]

One last try...

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/Ozmike52/US...524010286092578

 

[Konrad]

One last try...
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/Ozmike52/US...524010286092578

And now I can stop worrying and relax for the evening.

'Night all.

 

[Alice]

Hokay,
I've never had any success doing this but I hope this turns into a link to my pictures taken in WUS on 8 April 2009 en-route to Chicago on the Cardinal.

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/Ozmi...key=Gv1sRgCLui6-D6_oay1AE#5338524010286092578http://picasaweb.google.com.au/Ozmike52/USAMarch2009?authkey=Gv1sRgCLui6-D6_oay1AE#5338524010286092578

Konrad, I got to these photos fine by copying and pasting the displayed URL. When you click on the green plus sign to add a link, put the desired URL in the first answer box, and what you want to display in the second box. Alternatively, put the URL you want to display in both times. (I see you got it to work while I was writing.)

Also, I can tell what the photos are of when you show the outside of the car, but I'm not positive what the inside shots (gutted car, being restored?) are. So how about some captions for those of us who can't just look at those windows and identify what that is?!

 

[Konrad]

Hokay,
I've never had any success doing this but I hope this turns into a link to my pictures taken in WUS on 8 April 2009 en-route to Chicago on the Cardinal.

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/Ozmi...key=Gv1sRgCLui6-D6_oay1AE#5338524010286092578http://picasaweb.google.com.au/Ozmike52/USAMarch2009?authkey=Gv1sRgCLui6-D6_oay1AE#5338524010286092578

Konrad, I got to these photos fine by copying and pasting the displayed URL. When you click on the green plus sign to add a link, put the desired URL in the first answer box, and what you want to display in the second box. Alternatively, put the URL you want to display in both times. (I see you got it to work while I was writing.)

Also, I can tell what the photos are of when you show the outside of the car, but I'm not positive what the inside shots (gutted car, being restored?) are. So how about some captions for those of us who can't just look at those windows and identify what that is?!

The interior shots are of the 8400. Amazing what can happen to a prototype diner that hardly ever saw revenue service.

Hope you're suitable impressed that the pics came from Australia.

As the carriage is being used as a prototype for future builds I hope it doesn't indicate what future SDS service wille be like (in its current state).

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Wow its really stripped bear! I guess it will be all ne when it hits the road. I thought maybe the tables would still be inside.

 

[printman2000]

Thanks for posting those. I guess they are going with the clean slate approach. It will interesting to see what they come up with or if they will just use the same package as the heritage dining cars.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Thanks for posting those. I guess they are going with the clean slate approach. It will interesting to see what they come up with or if they will just use the same package as the heritage dining cars.

I'm going to bet you that it will be basically a standard diner, except it will have a more capable counter then the heritage diners that have them, it will be pointed at the non-table end of the car, and it will be configured to serve as a snack bar, so that it can be used as a combined diner-snack car on certain trains. The Cardinal, in particular, has shown itself to be well suited to the diner-lite concept. Or perhaps the Cardinal will remain on Diner lite even after the delivery of the new Viewliners. However, I personally hope that the Cardinal gets a consist similar to the Silvers or Crescent, and goes daily.

Although, they would probably be better served by adding a sleeper to the Crescent, and reinstating the Silver Palm and Broadway Limited so that all New York run bagdorm-3 sleepers-diner-dinerlite-4 coaches and can thus be all interlined.

 

[BuzzKillington]

Didn't Boardman basically say that Diner Lite wouldn't work on the long distance trains and he was getting rid of it?

 

[AlanB]

One last try...
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/Ozmike52/US...524010286092578

And now I can stop worrying and relax for the evening.

'Night all.

You got it right this time, and I fixed the link for you in the first attempt to lessen confusion for others.

And thanks for the pictures!

 

[AlanB]

Thanks for posting those. I guess they are going with the clean slate approach. It will interesting to see what they come up with or if they will just use the same package as the heritage dining cars.

They can't use the Timoinsa package, as that was specially designed to fit into the Heritage cars. Additonally, the Viewliner's are modular cars. That's why they all have that big rather square seem on one side of the car, where they slide the moduals into the car. Each roomette and bedroom on a Viewliner was built else where and just slid into the carbody and bolted down. The same approach will be used for the new Viewliner II Diners, and the prototype will serve as the test bed for the new modules that will go into the Viewliner II's. If the modules don't fit now, then they'll know before starting production on the new diners and can make the needed changes.

And returning to the Timoinsa rebuild packages, they aren't modular and therefore won't work in the prototype diner.

 

[printman2000]

Thanks for posting those. I guess they are going with the clean slate approach. It will interesting to see what they come up with or if they will just use the same package as the heritage dining cars.

They can't use the Timoinsa package, as that was specially designed to fit into the Heritage cars. Additonally, the Viewliner's are modular cars. That's why they all have that big rather square seem on one side of the car, where they slide the moduals into the car. Each roomette and bedroom on a Viewliner was built else where and just slid into the carbody and bolted down. The same approach will be used for the new Viewliner II Diners, and the prototype will serve as the test bed for the new modules that will go into the Viewliner II's. If the modules don't fit now, then they'll know before starting production on the new diners and can make the needed changes.

And returning to the Timoinsa rebuild packages, they aren't modular and therefore won't work in the prototype diner.

I can understand having sleeper modules, but a dining car? What would be/need to be modular on a dining car? Not like you can slide the kitchen module in/out or that there would be any need to slide table modules in/out. Seems to me you would just install the parts in a dining car.

 

[MattW]

What kind of weird trucks are those under the diner? Is that a new design passenger truck or is that just what the folks at wherever it was stored stuck under it to repair some other car? Also, do the trucks under the passenger cars have a specific name?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I think they are freight trucks, or more likely, trucks from a wrecked or scrapped ExpressTrak.

 

[cpamtfan]

I think they are freight trucks, or more likely, trucks from a wrecked or scrapped ExpressTrak.

Actually, they are a specially designed truck built especially for the prototype Viewliners. I think they are getting replaced as part of the overhaul, but I'm not certain.

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[rolfecms]

From what I've read, there have been issues (quality-wise) with the existing Viewliners - just not manufactured to the same standard or built to last like the heritage cars were and as a result there is a feeling of cheapness about them. Not having ridden on them I can't comment - can someone provide some insight? BTW, who built the Viewliners? Who in the US is capable of building a quality long distance passenger car?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

From what I've read, there have been issues (quality-wise) with the existing Viewliners - just not manufactured to the same standard or built to last like the heritage cars were and as a result there is a feeling of cheapness about them. Not having ridden on them I can't comment - can someone provide some insight? BTW, who built the Viewliners? Who in the US is capable of building a quality long distance passenger car?

There are a whole plethora of problems with regards to the Viewliners. The design overall was damned good, but the execution sucked. It starts out with poor materials, indifferent workmanship, bad equipment, and goes on to excessive use of unneeded innovations- those stupid shades come to mind.

They were built by Amerail/Morrison-Knudson.

Nobody in the US is qualified to build passenger cars anymore. American Car And Foundry stopped building passenger cars in 1959, St. Louis Car Company died out in 1973, Pullman-Standard closed its doors after the last Superliner I left the factory in 1982, and Budd stopped in 1989. Morrison-Knudson was the last, and died in 96/97 after the Viewliners and first batch of California cars.

As for who would build the Viewliners, I'd say there are about five companies. Bombardier (Canadian/French), Alstom (French), TALGO (Spanish), Rotem (Korean), and Kawasaki (Japanese). I guess Mafersa (the company that took over building Budd designs) might bid too, but I doubt it.

Amtrak has experience with Bombardier (Horizons, Superliner II, Acela, HHP-8), Alstom (Surfliners, Acela, HHP-8, AEM-7AC rebuild), and TALGO (Cascades TALGO sets). Due to the Acela experience, I'd say Bombardier is likely out of the running. I'd say Alstom will get the contract for the bi-level cars for Chicago corridors, and TALGO will build the Viewliners. But Bombardier is a possibility for the latter. If more Superliners or Amfleets are built, Bombardier will build them, since they own the patents.

 

[Ryan]

I wouldn't count Kawasaki out of the mix either, the commuter cars they built for MARC and others seem to be well thought of and holding up real well. Obviously the commuter car design is no good for Amtrak, but build quality and design are two different cups of tea.

 

[rolfecms]

From what I've read, there have been issues (quality-wise) with the existing Viewliners - just not manufactured to the same standard or built to last like the heritage cars were and as a result there is a feeling of cheapness about them. Not having ridden on them I can't comment - can someone provide some insight? BTW, who built the Viewliners? Who in the US is capable of building a quality long distance passenger car?

There are a whole plethora of problems with regards to the Viewliners. The design overall was damned good, but the execution sucked. It starts out with poor materials, indifferent workmanship, bad equipment, and goes on to excessive use of unneeded innovations- those stupid shades come to mind.

They were built by Amerail/Morrison-Knudson.

Nobody in the US is qualified to build passenger cars anymore. American Car And Foundry stopped building passenger cars in 1959, St. Louis Car Company died out in 1973, Pullman-Standard closed its doors after the last Superliner I left the factory in 1982, and Budd stopped in 1989. Morrison-Knudson was the last, and died in 96/97 after the Viewliners and first batch of California cars.

As for who would build the Viewliners, I'd say there are about five companies. Bombardier (Canadian/French), Alstom (French), TALGO (Spanish), Rotem (Korean), and Kawasaki (Japanese). I guess Mafersa (the company that took over building Budd designs) might bid too, but I doubt it.

Amtrak has experience with Bombardier (Horizons, Superliner II, Acela, HHP-8), Alstom (Surfliners, Acela, HHP-8, AEM-7AC rebuild), and TALGO (Cascades TALGO sets). Due to the Acela experience, I'd say Bombardier is likely out of the running. I'd say Alstom will get the contract for the bi-level cars for Chicago corridors, and TALGO will build the Viewliners. But Bombardier is a possibility for the latter. If more Superliners or Amfleets are built, Bombardier will build them, since they own the patents.

Thanks for that. It's sad that there's no US manufacturers left, but given that Morrison-Knudson did such a crappy job it's good they're not in the running to build the new cars. You would think that with the extra money now available for Amtrak along with the high speed rail corridors and the political push for funds to be spent in the USA, that there could be some new manufacturers emerge or old ones jump back in. Let's hope whoever builds Viewliner II does a better job than the first go-around.

 

[wayman]

Thanks for that. It's sad that there's no US manufacturers left, but given that Morrison-Knudson did such a crappy job it's good they're not in the running to build the new cars. You would think that with the extra money now available for Amtrak along with the high speed rail corridors and the political push for funds to be spent in the USA, that there could be some new manufacturers emerge or old ones jump back in. Let's hope whoever builds Viewliner II does a better job than the first go-around.

The Budd manufacturing complex is still standing in north Philadelphia, several city blocks of factory buildings and rails, just waiting for someone to do something with it. At one point several years ago a developer bought it with the intent to ... do some sort of mixed-use something-or-another, but it never happened and the plans died. I asked a city council staffer a few months ago if there was anything preventing someone from buying the facilities and building passenger cars there, and she thought that was entirely possible, at least insofar as nobody was presently planning anything and the current owners were just squatting, waiting for the economy to turn around, basically.

So, if anyone here wants to start the new Budd company (GML, I'm looking at you)....

 

[cpamtfan]

I don't think Talgo will be building any Viewliners, because if you haven't noticed, the Talgos are also having troubles (they don't even have the Vancouver set up).

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[AlanB]

I don't think Talgo will be building any Viewliners, because if you haven't noticed, the Talgos are also having troubles (they don't even have the Vancouver set up).
cpamtfan-Peter

Well that's just a matter of refurbishing the cars, and they are a few years older than the Acelas.